How should Israel respond to the attacks by Gaza?

MineSubCraftStarved

@jack

I'm a proud Jew who LOVED showing the world what underdogs can do.

We don't always have to be the underdog though.

Bogan

@anarchist100

Anarchist100 quote   What even is racism?

A very good question.      My favourite definition of racism is, “opposing anything a woke educated elitist promotes.”     But there are others.    Blaming one race for the dysfunctions of another is racism, which is what CRT is all about.     Another is, making derogatory generalisations about the behaviour of people of another race or ethnicity.     Another is, comparing races, and claiming that they are not equal.

I am a racist, so I can do all of that.   But you are a woke bloke, so you can not say that racism is bad and then do it yourself.

 

Anarchist100 quote       Is it racist to say the Irish are crude if it's not an issue to me?

Yes.   You have pre judged an entire group of people and stereotyped them with  negative characteristics.

  

Anarchist100 quote     I don't hate the Irish, their vulgarity isn't even a problem for me Also what makes you think I would ever complain about racism?

 When a person holds woke views about issues, like supporting Palestinians, then it is London to a brick that they also support every other woke causes as well.       The rule of thumb seems to be, that woke people reflexively support every cause that they think that normal people oppose, just to show how “different” and “unique” they are.

 

Anarchist100 quote     Awhile ago you accused me of hating Trump and voting for democrats, why do you jump to conclusions so easily?

    With an avatar like “Anarchist” I think that that question is a no brainer.

Bogan

@Dee

Dee quote   Deliberately lying when you know the savage  behavior of the state of Israel is being monitored and documented daily by human rights organisations is your usual tactic but fails miserably

 ....... The UN Human Rights Organisation?       Do you mean the one with North Korea, China, and Libya on the panel?      Are you serious?   Or, are you just trying to be funny?   

anarchist100

Bogan said:

@anarchist100

Anarchist100 quote   What even is racism?

A very good question.      My favourite definition of racism is, “opposing anything a woke educated elitist promotes.”     But there are others.    Blaming one race for the dysfunctions of another is racism, which is what CRT is all about.     Another is, making derogatory generalisations about the behaviour of people of another race or ethnicity.     Another is, comparing races, and claiming that they are not equal.

I am a racist, so I can do all of that.   But you are a woke bloke, so you can not say that racism is bad and then do it yourself.

What even is wokeness?

Anarchist100 quote       Is it racist to say the Irish are crude if it's not an issue to me?

Yes.   You have pre judged an entire group of people and stereotyped them with  negative characteristics.

I never said that it's what they all do, and I'm not sure why everyone keeps assuming that that's what I'm saying. I was saying that that's their cultural tendency

Anarchist100 quote     I don't hate the Irish, their vulgarity isn't even a problem for me Also what makes you think I would ever complain about racism?

 When a person holds woke views about issues, like supporting Palestinians, then it is London to a brick that they also support every other woke causes as well.       The rule of thumb seems to be, that woke people reflexively support every cause that they think that normal people oppose, just to show how “different” and “unique” they are.

Oh you mean like how you're a racist? Pretty woke if you ask me, considering that almost all normal people will be very much against you on account of it, but in all seriousness you're being dishonest, there are plenty of reasons to support Palestine or being a racist other than just being edgy, although that might play a part for a lot of people.

And I never said that I supported the cause of Palestinian fighters if that's what you mean, all I said was that Israel shouldn't be unnecessarily brutal.

Anarchist100 quote     Awhile ago you accused me of hating Trump and voting for democrats, why do you jump to conclusions so easily?

    With an avatar like “Anarchist” I think that that question is a no brainer.

Well anarchists tend to vary in what they think of politicians with some even supporting Trump, but none the less I'm sure you have an idea of a certain kind of anarchist that you assume I am, in truth I was that kind of anarchist when I made this account, as of now I am not an anarchist at all though, but I don't expect anyone to know that.

Sonofason

I believe the best solution is to eliminate every single Palestinian that lives in Gaza...every single one.  Conflict over.  And if Iran doesn't like it, we nuke them all.

Sonofason

God told Moses to do it...He didn't do it.  Better late than never.

Ampersand

@MineSubCraftStarved

You are literally a war crime apologist. I went easy on you before on the basis that you could be misinformed and not thinking clearly, but it’s now clear that you hold and support horrendous views.

You literally are holding Israel to lower standards than Nazis. Most of the international humanitarian law that we have now that defines and protects against war crimes was brought in following WW2 in an attempt to say “never again”.

In terms of the less emotive parts of Israeli’s war crimes, there is an absolute prohibition against annexing occupied territory. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/06/annexation-flagrant-violation-international-law-says-un-human-rights-expert

It doesn’t matter if an illegal settler purchases some land in the West Bank from the Israeli government, the Israeli government has no right to it in the first place. Not only this but because Israel also demolished Palestinian home and builds these exclusively Jewish settlements, it is categorically slowly but surely ethnically cleansing the OPT.

Then there’s the regular abuse and lack of rights that Palestinians face. Let’s take an excerpt from Palestine Inside Out An Everyday Occupation by Saree Makdishi

Nowhere is the vulnerability of Palestinian inner spaces more visible than in the city of Hebron, the largest city in the southern West Bank, and, other than East Jerusalem, the only one with an active Jewish settler presence inside city limits. The Jewish settlers of Hebron have made life virtually impossible for the city's Palestinian population, again, the settlers are heavily defended by a formidable Israeli army and police presence (10 soldiers for every settler), whereas the city's palestinians have no defenses and no real legal protection from settler intrusions.
This reality was vividly captured on a widely circulated amateur video (available on youtube), which was entirely shot in the doorway of a Palestinian home that opens onto a street leading to the Jewish settlement of Tel Rumeida, inside Hebron. No Palestinian can drive here, only Jewish traffic is permitted. the Palestinian family was obliged to build a wire case to protect the home's doors and windows. The video shows a Palestinian mother anxiously waiting for the return of her kids from school. She is standing outside her doorway, but inside the protective cage. The settler boys playing in the street start pelting her with stones, but the cage protects her; the stone bounce and ricochet off the wire. Israeli soldiers stationed here call out to the boys to stop. They don't. One soldier reaches out to one of the boys, pulling him back. the other boys move to either side of the soldier, continuing the stoning. The soldier reaches out to another boy. Again, the other kigs move apart, and continue lazily chucking stones. There's no way for one man to control all these kids. A settler woman approaches the cage door and pushes it open. The Palestinian woman starts screaming at her, telling her to back away. The soldier looks on helplessly. The Jewish woman withdraws, but puts her face up to the case and, cupping her hands, moans out softly, with her Hebrew-accented Arabic, "Shaghmouta... Shaghmouta." )Sharmouta: "whore" in Arabic). The Palestinian woman has to face this kind of abuse every time she steps outside the door of her home.

They are kept in a life of suffering where they have one of the worst qualities of life found anywhere on the planet.

Not only that but they suffer death and torture at the hands of the Isrralinforces.

B’tselem (an Israeli NGO) has for instance found (http://www.btselem.org/sites/default/files2/publication/200705_utterly_forbidden_eng.pdf):

“On the basis of the discussion thus far, it may be concluded that all or most aspects of the routine interrogations regime of the ISA infringe the human rights of detainees. It is also clear that most, if not all, of the methods employed in the framework of this regime are not the inevitable side-effects of the necessities of detention and interrogation, but are deliberately planned to break the spirit of the interrogees and obtain information from them against their free will.
Accordingly, these methods deviate from what the High Court referred to as the rules of “reasonable and fair interrogation,” insofar as they unjustifiably impinge on the detainees’ rights to dignity and bodily integrity – rights that enjoy constitutional, supralegal, status in the Israeli legal system. Accordingly, even if the use of some of the methods described here is rooted in various legislative provisions, their legality under Israeli law is questionable. Inasmuch as the above methods cause physical pain and mental distress to detainees, with the aim of breaking their spirit and leading them to provide information or make a confession, they constitute, under international law, prohibited ill-treatment. Moreover, given the cumulative character of these methods and the subjective nature of the experience of pain, their use may, in certain circumstances, be considered to cause severe mental suffering and hence fall under the definition of torture.”

And of course people detained and tortured are regularly detained without trial, in contravention of international law.

UN investigations into how Israel conducts itself militarily have found it carries out the indiscriminate killing of civilians (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf) which:

“[F]ound numerous instances of deliberate attacks on civilians and civilian objects (individuals, whole families, houses, mosques) in violation of the fundamental international humanitarian law principle of distinction[/b], resulting in deaths and serious injuries. [b]In these cases the Mission found that the protected status of civilians was not respected and the attacks were intentional[/b], in clear violation of customary law reflected in article 51 (2) and 75 of Additional Protocol I, article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and articles 6 and 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights”

Ultimately the driving force in the conflict is the continual war crimes committed against the entire populace of the OPT. I'm being literal there. I don't mean simply mean the regular war crimes that are omitted against some, like the killings of innocents civilians or the people used as human shields. I'm not talking about the continual war crimes that are committed against a fraction of the populace like imprisonment without trial or torture. It's the fact that the entire population of the OPT is under an illegal occupation which does not hold to the Geneva Convention or other relevant standards of IML and is oppressing and impoverishing them constantly in a host of ways.

Just like the ANC in South Africa used terrorist attacks but the fundamental issue was about the apartheid system and would never be resolved until it went, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict will never be resolved until Israel ends its apartheid system and the issue is that Israel does not want peace.

While the current PM of Israel has bragged about ruining the peace accords with Palestine and tricking the US into thinking that Israel was engaging honestly with them (https://www.haaretz.com/2010-07-15/ty-article/tricky-bibi/0000017f-dc84-d3a5-af7f-feae8a9e0000) Fatah have offered numerous peace deals which offer Israel more than they are legally due, compromising on land and refugees to try and make it enticing to Israel.

Dee

@anarchist100

That's your best  response ,seriously?

You just said you hate the Irish and most everyone apart from the Irish agree with your assessment yet you cannot explain how you.rationally conclude this, that's pretty cowardly and childish to say the least.

Bogan

@anarchist100

Anarchist100    What even is wokeness?

 ‘Woke” is term manufactured by the educated elite, socialist socialites to describe themselves.  It assumes that they are the communities moral and intellectual superiors who are “awake” to the real reasons for the problems of the world.     Amusingly, they are now trying to distance themselves from the very word they invented to describe themselves.    This is because most people think that loony lefties are complete id-iots and the term “woke” is becoming a substitute for "id-iot" among the general public. 

 

Anarchist100 quote  I never said that it's what they all do, and I'm not sure why everyone keeps assuming that that's what I'm saying. I was saying that that's their cultural tendency.

You made a negative generalised judgement of “the Irish” as being “vulgar”.   You did not qualify your stereotype to explain which “Irish” you think are exceptions to your stereotype, so, a reasonable person would consider that you are condemning all Irish as vulgar.      Condemning an entire racial, ethnic, or national group with a negative generalisation, is racism. 

 

Anarchist100 quote   Oh you mean like how you're a racist?

Yes, and so are you.       I am a racist, so I can and do make negative generalisations about racial, ethnic, and national groups.    I don’t see much wrong with it because everybody does it, including people who claim that they are anti racist.    But anti racists are not supposed to do it, even though they do it quite regularly, especially to white people.       This is called “hypocrisy.”

 

Anarchist100 quote       Pretty woke if you ask me….  

 Not so.    Woke people are loony lefties who are not defined by income or social position, they are defined by their attitudes.    There are many left wing causes that they can froth at the mouth about.    But what really gets them hopping around in red faced apoplexy is racism.     Calling a racist “woke” is a contradiction in terms.   It equates to calling a Jew, a Nazi.    Or a meat eating human, a vegan.

 

Anarchist100 quote  …….considering that almost all normal people will be very much against you on account of it,……

 Not in my own particular working class demographic.    Racist sentiments among working class people are quite common and would be expressed more often except that my country, Australia, does not have free speech.    Expressing a negative opinion about any group of dysfunctional and crime prone people in public, (that the left champions), can get you prosecuted in Australia under Section C of the Federal Racial Discrimination Act.   But you can say anything derogatory about white people that comes into a woke head, and the government, the police, and the courts, do not care.  

Would you like to read an Aussie racist joke?      Q.    Why did the Lebanese boxing team go home before the Olympic started?

                                                                              A.   They found out it was one on one.   

Anarchist100 quote   …… but in all seriousness you're being dishonest, there are plenty of reasons to support Palestine or being a racist other than just being edgy, although that might play a part for a lot of people.

 I am being completely honest.     If there are any reasons why you think that members of the most hated religious group on earth, who have been the world’s best religious racists and ethnic cleansers for 1400 years, should now have the world’s sympathy, please tell us what that is?    Especially since some of them are up to their old tricks of raping and killing every man, woman, and child that they can get their grubby hands on, while the rest of the ummah cheers them on?  

Anarchist100 quote    And I never said that I supported the cause of Palestinian fighters if that's what you mean, all I said was that Israel shouldn't be unnecessarily brutal.

 Well, I think that they should be brutal.     The rule of thumb in modern warfare, is that women and kids are non combatants. And that POW’s should be treated humanely.     That only works if both sides more or less agree to kill each other in a civilised way.   But when one side hoists the red dragon flag, then the other side is not obliged to play clean.   Australia and the USA were signatories to the Geneva Convention, but soldiers from both countries in WW2 committed a lot of “war crimes” (some would say “payback”) to the Japanese who were so brutal that some people really did wonder if the Japanese were really human? 

 

Anarchist100     Well anarchists tend to vary in what they think of politicians with some even supporting Trump, but none the less I'm sure you have an idea of a certain kind of anarchist that you assume I am, in truth I was that kind of anarchist when I made this account, as of now I am not an anarchist at all though, but I don't expect anyone to know that.

 All I know about anarchists, is that even the Nazis and Communists think that they are extremists.      So, I have no idea of which grade or colour of anarchist you are, or were.

Dee

@anarchist100

*** I never said that it's what they all do, and I'm not sure why everyone keeps assuming that that's what I'm saying. I was saying that that's their cultural tendency***

You actually did and you said every non Irish person agreed with you.

You also said you hate the Irish but edited out the word hate.

You're pretty cowardly in the way you state you cannot provide stats but " everyone" knows that Irishmen / women and children are crude ,coarse people"

The Germans said the same about Jews with no stats of course,  then again previously on here you said the Holocaust never happened right?

Dee

@Sonofason

*** believe the best solution is to eliminate every single Palestinian that lives in Gaza...every single one.  Conflict over.  And if Iran doesn't like it, we nuke them all.***


Yes but you're a Republican Christian , and everyone knows god mentions several times that one must slaughter ones enemies without mercy.

As all Republican Christians know Jesus never meant a word of what he said about loving your enemies,  or anything about how blessed were the peacemakers.


Watch Sonofabitch say that the verse below actually means  slaughter your enemies.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you:

Barnardot

@Dee ;You're pretty cowardly in the way you state you cannot provide stats 

That is exstreamly cowardly really. Its almost half as cowardly as providing stats that are false and even making people pay for them. And then throwing utter spazos if any one dears to mention it. Hitler used to do that a lot but not nearly as bad and there is one other person in nower days times that does that big time. I just cant remember who that is though. Do you have any ideas who it may be.

Dee

@Barnardot


***That is exstreamly cowardly really. Its almost half as cowardly as providing stats that are false and even making people pay for them***

What are you talking about you're making no sense as usual.

. ***And then throwing utter spazos if any one dears to mention it***.

" any one dears" !


 **Hitler used to do that a lot but not nearly as bad and there is one other person in nower days times that does that big time***

" Nower days" ROFLMAO.


.*** I just cant remember who that is though. Do you have any ideas who it may be.***

Sorry buddy I haven't a clue what you're rambling about but I'm sure it's terribly.important......

Do you even know what this debate is about?

I don't think.its about your hurt feelings that you're going on about for 6 months now 

just_sayin

Argument Topic: If you can't say its wrong to cut off an Israeli baby's head then you are an immoral person.

Regardless of your political leanings or feelings about the Israeli-Palestinian issue, it would seem to me that we should be able to denounce violence against innocent babies.  Yet, DEMOCRAT congress woman, Rashida Tlaib, refused, over and over again, to condemn cutting off baby's heads if they were Israeli born.  See the video for yourself.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1711908229762945088

Barnardot

@just_sayin ;refused, over and over again, to condemn cutting off baby's heads

And here goes lier boy once again twisting things a round to make it sound like the load of diss honest crap he wants to push. Of coarse as any honest sensible person knows she refused to comment. And as any descent honest person knows the reporter was asking a nasty straw man question because as every descent honest person knows that there were absolutely no confirmed truthful reports that such a thing ever happened. And as any descent honest person knows there are going to be lying dishonest scum out there who will jump on exstream gutter journalism to use for there own self centered evil purposes. When are you ever going to stop pushing your sick offencive crap.

Dee

@Barnardot


Do you ever actually debate , I've never seen you even try all you do is run around calling people liars and acting like the site policeman and snitch.

Why not try debating for once instead of constantly b-itching and whining?

MayCaesar

just_sayin said:

Regardless of your political leanings or feelings about the Israeli-Palestinian issue, it would seem to me that we should be able to denounce violence against innocent babies.  Yet, DEMOCRAT congress woman, Rashida Tlaib, refused, over and over again, to condemn cutting off baby's heads if they were Israeli born.  See the video for yourself.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1711908229762945088

This reminds me of a guy with a Che-Guevara t-shirt I saw at an LGBT event on campus. I was wondering if he had any idea what Che's views on homosexuality had been... Rashida also probably does not have a very good idea what PNA's and most Palestinians' views are on many of the causes she champions, such as feminism or sexual minority rights.

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin ;refused, over and over again, to condemn cutting off baby's heads

And here goes lier boy once again twisting things a round to make it sound like the load of diss honest crap he wants to push. Of coarse as any honest sensible person knows she refused to comment. And as any descent honest person knows the reporter was asking a nasty straw man question because as every descent honest person knows that there were absolutely no confirmed truthful reports that such a thing ever happened. And as any descent honest person knows there are going to be lying dishonest scum out there who will jump on exstream gutter journalism to use for there own self centered evil purposes. When are you ever going to stop pushing your sick offencive crap.

It doesn't take a moral giant to simply say "Yes, its wrong to cut baby's heads off."  See how simple that was.  This was to much for her to do. 

And no matter how much you argue against facts, the facts are Hamas cut babies heads off:

Hamas kills 40 babies and children — beheading some of them — at Israeli kibbutz: report

IDF says Hamas fighters killed and decapitated babies at one kibbutz near the Gaza border

'Toddlers, babies with their heads cut off': Israeli PM's spokesperson describes scene in border village after Hamas attack

It is sad when because its someone on 'your team' you can't admit that babies had their heads cut off and you can't condemn it.

Ampersand

@just_sayin

It’s not yet clear if decapitations of babies actually happened.

https://twitter.com/OrenZiv_/status/1712038436910055925?

At one media event at one village, one journalist said they heard it from soldiers. That’s the entire basis for this story. No other journalists at this village heard the soldiers make these claims. No journalist actually saw decapitated infants. The army spokesman and commanders made no mention of this occurring.

I would say that this is fairly unlikely, Israel isn’t shy about publishing atrocities when they are the victims and this only coming from a single uncorroborated 2nd hand source seems sketchy.

Maybe I’m wrong and it did happen, but until we find out otherwise I think we have more than enough verified war crimes to worry about.

Dee

@just_sayin


                        Israeli troops now targeting and killing Ambulance workers while performing humanitarian work.

Israel “directly targeted a Palestinian Red Crescent ambulance in northern Gaza” on Wednesday, killing paramedics Khalil Al-Sharif, Yasser Al-Masri and Ahmed Dahman, a PRCS statement reads. The Palestinian news agency WAFA said the attack happened when “an Israeli aircraft bombed their ambulance in the northern Gaza Strip.”
A second statement from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society said paramedic Hatem Awad was also killed Wednesday “while performing his humanitarian work at the Karmi Crossing in eastern Gaza due to shelling by occupation forces.”

just_sayin

Dee said:

@just_sayin


                        Israeli troops now targeting and killing Ambulance workers while performing humanitarian work.

Israel “directly targeted a Palestinian Red Crescent ambulance in northern Gaza” on Wednesday, killing paramedics Khalil Al-Sharif, Yasser Al-Masri and Ahmed Dahman, a PRCS statement reads. The Palestinian news agency WAFA said the attack happened when “an Israeli aircraft bombed their ambulance in the northern Gaza Strip.”
A second statement from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society said paramedic Hatem Awad was also killed Wednesday “while performing his humanitarian work at the Karmi Crossing in eastern Gaza due to shelling by occupation forces.”

If Israel targeted an ambulance, that wasn't being used to launch missiles or to transport Hamas terrorists on missions, that would be wrong too.  I make those caveats because Hamas has admitted to using human shields in the past to make Israel look bad.  

Dee

@just_sayin

If Israel targeted an ambulance, that wasn't being used to launch missiles or to transport Hamas terrorists on missions, that would be wrong too.

Yes, I agree.


 I make those caveats because Hamas has admitted to using human shields in the past to make Israel look bad.  

Actually it was the IDF who were found guilty in an Israeli court of using human shields on 1,200 different occasions unless of course you concede that the country you're defending is actually lying?

just_sayin

Dee said:

@just_sayin

If Israel targeted an ambulance, that wasn't being used to launch missiles or to transport Hamas terrorists on missions, that would be wrong too.

Yes, I agree.


 I make those caveats because Hamas has admitted to using human shields in the past to make Israel look bad.  

Actually it was the IDF who were found guilty in an Israeli court of using human shields on 1,200 different occasions unless of course you concede that the country you're defending is actually lying?

No.  I meant that Hamas has admitted to using human shields.

Hamas admits using civilians as human shields

Hamas’ use of human shields in Gaza

Does Hamas use civilians as human shields?

Actually Hamas has made no secret of advocating the use of civilians as human shields to try to face down Israeli aggression.
A senior spokesman for the group, Sami Abu Zuhri, gave an interview on Palestinian station al-Aqsa TV earlier this month.
He said: “This attests to the character of our noble, jihad-loving people – who defend their rights and their homes with their bare chests and their blood.
“The policy of people confronting the Israeli warplanes with their bare chests in order to protect their homes has proven effective against the occupation… we in Hamas call upon our people to adopt this policy in order to protect the Palestinian homes.”
Credible reports from journalists in Gaza suggest some civilians are choosing to stay in their homes, ignoring warnings of imminent destructions that the Israeli military gives via telephone calls or empty shells “knocking on the roof”.
On the same day as Mr Abu Zuhri was broadcasting Hamas’s message, the New York Times reported the fate of a Palestinian man, Salah Kaware, who received a telephone warning that his house in Khan Younis in south east Gaza was about to be hit by the IDF.
The newspaper reported that another warning came as the occupants were leaving, when an Israeli drone fired a flare at the roof of the three-storey home.
“Our neighbours came in to form a human shield,” Mr Kaware said, with some even going up on to the roof to try to prevent a bombing.
Seven people died in the attack.

Dee

@just_sayin

So both sides have used human shields and?

Bogan

@Dee ;    Actually it was the IDF who were found guilty in an Israeli court of using human shields on 1,200 different occasions unless of course you concede that the country you're defending is actually lying?

Hi Mr Dee.     Could you please post a link to any site which backs up your claim?

Dee

@Bogan


Hi Mr Dee.     Could you please post a link to any site which backs up your claim?

Hi Mr Bogan. Why when you woukd just deny it?

Dee

@Bogan ;


.. The UN Human Rights Organisation?

Yes , why the question mark?


 Do you mean the one with North Korea, China, and Libya on the panel?

Yes I do and also the one that has sanctions against all 3 ....ouch Maybe do a bit of research as to why they're on it?

Also nothing wrong with China I buy most my goodies from there they cannot be beaten on price.


 Are you serious?


 Or, are you just trying to be funny?   

Sonofason

Dee said:

@Sonofason

*** believe the best solution is to eliminate every single Palestinian that lives in Gaza...every single one.  Conflict over.  And if Iran doesn't like it, we nuke them all.***


Yes but you're a Republican Christian , and everyone knows god mentions several times that one must slaughter ones enemies without mercy.

As all Republican Christians know Jesus never meant a word of what he said about loving your enemies,  or anything about how blessed were the peacemakers.


Watch Sonofabitch say that the verse below actually means  slaughter your enemies.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you:

Hamas has vowed to annihilate Israel and has been responsible for many suicide bombings and other deadly attacks on civilians and Israeli soldiers.  Any person who vows to annihilate another group of people deserves to be put to death.  And that it exactly what needs to be done.  Are there Palestinian babies that are not a part of Hamas?  Certainly, we can find homes for them once their parents and older siblings are dead.  As far as I can tell, Jesus is dead.  His words have absolutely no meaning and no validity on this subject.  Jesus also said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Well, I assure you, if I were going around intentionally killing babies, and children, or if I sympathized with people who did such things, I would want someone to make me suffer.  I would want someone to utterly destroy me.  Well, that is what Jesus wants us to do to Hamas, and anyone who sympathizes with them.  

Dee

@Sonofason

It's remarkably amusing that you're criticising me ( an Atheist) for praising Jesus for his remarkable stance against anger and violence.


Well, that is what Jesus wants us to do to Hamas, and anyone who sympathizes with them.  

So Jesus communicated this to you personally.? You're now saying Jesus was lying when he said the words below?



Never thought I would here a Christian attack Jesus,  then again Jesus never came across  Republican Christians who re -interpret the bible to suit the Republican mantra.


Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also” (Luke 6:27-29).

Bogan

@Dee ;     Hi Mr Bogan. Why when you woukd just deny it?

Oh, I am so sorry, Mr Dee, but I just checked my "troll list" and your name is at the top.     So, I can't engage with you at all.     But thank you for demonstrating to everybody here that you are making serious claims that you can not authenticate.     

Dee

@Bogan



***Oh, I am so sorry, Mr Dee, but I just checked my "troll list" and your name is at the top.  ***

Funny that you're top of mine.


  *** So, I can't engage with you at all. ***

Splendid

 **  But thank you for demonstrating to everybody here that you are making serious claims that you can not authenticate. ***

But I can,  also google is your friend but you're more used to  trolling than debating

Barnardot

@just_sayin It is sad when because its someone on 'your team' you can't admit that babies had their heads cut off and you can't condemn it.

And its even sadder that there are some people in this world who get off on using miss quotes as evidence for there nasty negative thinking. 
I already explained to you why that video was totally scum and once again you totally refused to even comment on that or even ack knowledge it just like you still refuse to comment on the illegal immigrants and prisoners that I allegedly mentioned and never did. There is no limit to your horrible nasty lying and deceiving allegations. And are you going to comment on the reasons that I clearly gave. No your not because you want to keep on being a low peace of dog mess and offend as many people as you can.

anarchist100

@Bogan
I don't have time for this, I never claimed to be anti racist, and having a differing philosophy as to how one should deal with a brutal foe doesn't mean I support the brutal foe.

anarchist100

@Dee
I never said I hated the Irish seriously, it is obvious satire and you know it, I don't know why you're looking for trouble where there is none, and when I said non-Irish people would agree with me, I specified that I was talking about non-Irish people who've spent time among the Irish, would you rather ask someone from a totally different culture who's spending a lot of time with Irish people, or an Irishman who's spent their whole life in Ireland if you want to find out how they are in relation to other people's? I also told you that I have spent time among them and this will confirm my belief, not as someone who's come to slander them, but someone who appreciates their culture. I never said that this vulgarity bothered me, not once, why do you look for trouble where there is none? Go do something productive. I don't care if you accept this, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you all day.

just_sayin

@Barnardot
You are dishonest.  I don't remember what you said about illegal immigration. I would think though that in your line of work, you would recognize how illegal LABOR has a negative impact on your income.

I did see congresswoman Rashida Tlaib asked this:

"You have nothing to say about Hamas terrorists chopping off babies’ heads? Do you condone what Hamas has done chopping off babies’ heads, burning children alive, raping women in the streets? You have no comment about children’s heads being chopped off?" 

And she refused to say 'No, I don't condone chopping off babies heads."  When you can't condemn chopping off babies heads there is a problem.

Dee

@anarchist100 ;

ARGUMENT TOPIC ANARCH8ST THE BIGOT PRETENDING HE ADMIRES THE IRISH AFTER SAYING HE HATES THEM .....THIS GUY PREVIOUSLY STATED THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED 


never said I hated the Irish seriously, it is obvious satire and you know it,

Ah right you state you hate the Irish and when called on it you claim its " satire" , seriously?


 I don't know why you're looking for trouble where there is none, and when I said non-Irish people would agree with me, I specified that I was talking about non-Irish people who've spent time among the Irish

That's an awful lot of people considering millions mix with the Irish every day so how do you gather all their opiions daily?


, would you rather ask someone from a totally different culture who's spending a lot of time with Irish people,

But you just said that's who you asked 


 or an Irishman who's spent their whole life in Ireland if you want to find out how they are in relation to other people's?

What are you on about?


I also told you that I have spent time among them and this will confirm my belief, not as someone who's come to slander them, but someone who appreciates their culture.

what a two faced coward you are you're on slagging og the Irish now you're appreciating their culture.


I never said that this vulgarity bothered me

There you go branding an entire  nation as vulgar yet again. What vulgarity are you talking about that the whole nation is guilty of?


, not once, why do you look for trouble where there is none?

I'm not making trouble I'm asking you why you're a hate filled bigot

 Go do something productive.

You mean like become a bigot like you?


 I don't care if you accept this

BIGOTS  LIKE YOU RARELY LIKE GETTING CALLED ON THEIR HATRED OF OTHERS

, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you all day.

Well you will be left alone when you lay of with your vile bigotry 

ZeusAres42

@MineSubCraftStarved

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the most complex and longstanding issues in modern history, and discussing it requires care, nuance, and empathy. The human cost of any conflict is undeniable, and it's deeply unfortunate that innocent civilians, whether Palestinian or Israeli, often suffer the most. When discussing any entity's actions, including Hamas, it's critical to differentiate between the actions of a group and the general population they represent. While Hamas has been involved in activities detrimental to both Israelis and Palestinians, it doesn't necessarily mean the entirety of Gaza's population aligns with Hamas's decisions or actions.

Proposing the expulsion of the entire or a significant portion of Gaza's population into Egypt is a contentious stance. There are several concerns associated with this idea. Forcibly relocating such a vast number of people could result in numerous civilian casualties, displacing countless individuals from their homes. Such an act might be seen as ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity under international law. Besides, the practicality of this idea is questionable. It's not clear if Egypt would welcome such a sudden and vast influx of refugees, and this move might further destabilize the region, potentially escalating tensions between Israel and its neighboring countries.

Moreover, the moral and ethical implications of such an action can't be overlooked. Proposing the expulsion of an entire population based on the actions of a particular group can be seen as collective punishment, which is not in line with principles of justice and human rights.

There might be more suitable ways to address the conflict. Instead of focusing on expulsion, Israel could consider taking targeted actions against Hamas's leadership while avoiding harm to innocent civilians. Strengthening diplomatic efforts, engaging with regional and international partners, and seeking a peaceful resolution could be more beneficial in the long run. Another approach might be to support moderate Palestinian voices that advocate for peace and reconciliation. Furthermore, addressing the underlying causes of the conflict, like territorial disputes, access to resources, and religious differences, might pave the way for a more sustainable resolution.

MayCaesar

just_sayin said:

@Barnardot
You are dishonest.  I don't remember what you said about illegal immigration. I would think though that in your line of work, you would recognize how illegal LABOR has a negative impact on your income.

I did see congresswoman Rashida Tlaib asked this:

"You have nothing to say about Hamas terrorists chopping off babies’ heads? Do you condone what Hamas has done chopping off babies’ heads, burning children alive, raping women in the streets? You have no comment about children’s heads being chopped off?" 

And she refused to say 'No, I don't condone chopping off babies heads."  When you can't condemn chopping off babies heads there is a problem.

Your argument implies that refusal to say something implies lack of condemnation of that something. It is a similar argument to the commonly heard one: "If you do not actively and daily call out racists, then you are complicit with systemic racism in the society". Would you agree with the latter argument?

I once was having an argument with a friend, making the case for communism being worse than national-socialism. What he decided to take from my argument was that I was condoning Hitler's actions... I thought that was an unfair take of my argument, yet is it not similar to your take of Rashida's behavior?

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

just_sayin said:

@Barnardot
You are dishonest.  I don't remember what you said about illegal immigration. I would think though that in your line of work, you would recognize how illegal LABOR has a negative impact on your income.

I did see congresswoman Rashida Tlaib asked this:

"You have nothing to say about Hamas terrorists chopping off babies’ heads? Do you condone what Hamas has done chopping off babies’ heads, burning children alive, raping women in the streets? You have no comment about children’s heads being chopped off?" 

And she refused to say 'No, I don't condone chopping off babies heads."  When you can't condemn chopping off babies heads there is a problem.

Your argument implies that refusal to say something implies lack of condemnation of that something. It is a similar argument to the commonly heard one: "If you do not actively and daily call out racists, then you are complicit with systemic racism in the society". Would you agree with the latter argument?

I once was having an argument with a friend, making the case for communism being worse than national-socialism. What he decided to take from my argument was that I was condoning Hitler's actions... I thought that was an unfair take of my argument, yet is it not similar to your take of Rashida's behavior?

I think attacking the anti-Semite Rashida Tlaib for having a Palestinian flag is wrong.  Hamas has its own flag.  She can support the Palestinian people.  When you are point blank asked over half a dozen times in less than a minute if you condemn the chopping off of babies heads and you refuse to say 'no, I don't condone chopping babies heads off' then it is logical to assume that there is some conflict within her that won't let her say what a decent human being would say.  

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - John Stuart Mill

Sonofason

ZeusAres42 said:

@MineSubCraftStarved

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the most complex and longstanding issues in modern history, and discussing it requires care, nuance, and empathy. The human cost of any conflict is undeniable, and it's deeply unfortunate that innocent civilians, whether Palestinian or Israeli, often suffer the most. When discussing any entity's actions, including Hamas, it's critical to differentiate between the actions of a group and the general population they represent. While Hamas has been involved in activities detrimental to both Israelis and Palestinians, it doesn't necessarily mean the entirety of Gaza's population aligns with Hamas's decisions or actions.

Proposing the expulsion of the entire or a significant portion of Gaza's population into Egypt is a contentious stance. There are several concerns associated with this idea. Forcibly relocating such a vast number of people could result in numerous civilian casualties, displacing countless individuals from their homes. Such an act might be seen as ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity under international law. Besides, the practicality of this idea is questionable. It's not clear if Egypt would welcome such a sudden and vast influx of refugees, and this move might further destabilize the region, potentially escalating tensions between Israel and its neighboring countries.

Moreover, the moral and ethical implications of such an action can't be overlooked. Proposing the expulsion of an entire population based on the actions of a particular group can be seen as collective punishment, which is not in line with principles of justice and human rights.

There might be more suitable ways to address the conflict. Instead of focusing on expulsion, Israel could consider taking targeted actions against Hamas's leadership while avoiding harm to innocent civilians. Strengthening diplomatic efforts, engaging with regional and international partners, and seeking a peaceful resolution could be more beneficial in the long run. Another approach might be to support moderate Palestinian voices that advocate for peace and reconciliation. Furthermore, addressing the underlying causes of the conflict, like territorial disputes, access to resources, and religious differences, might pave the way for a more sustainable resolution.

This is quite a reasonable argument.  However, none of this can happen until Hamas is no more.

MayCaesar

just_sayin said:

I think attacking the anti-Semite Rashida Tlaib for having a Palestinian flag is wrong.  Hamas has its own flag.  She can support the Palestinian people.  When you are point blank asked over half a dozen times in less than a minute if you condemn the chopping off of babies heads and you refuse to say 'no, I don't condone chopping babies heads off' then it is logical to assume that there is some conflict within her that won't let her say what a decent human being would say.  

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - John Stuart Mill

Do you not agree though that there could be rational reasons why one would not say something like it under pressure? Suppose you take a position on a highly controversial issue, and a group of journalists who you know are out to get you and present you in the most negative light shove cameras in your face and demand that you answer a question which, no matter how you answer, they will be able to use to damage your reputation - is there no value in taking a principled stance and refusing to give them what they want?

I am quite sympathetic with Objectivism, although I have a lot of disagreements with Ayn Rand's reasoning. If I were asked in a polite discussion whether Ayn Rand's views on homosexuality were sensible, I would explain why I strongly disagree with them. On the other hand, if a group led by Ocasio-Cortez approached me and started screaming in my face about the evils of capitalism and selfishness, and demanded that I condemned her views on the LGBT community - I would, most likely, only give them the middle finger. The reality of living in a society is, it matters what you say to whom, and even if your words are honest and truthful, it is still useful to aim carefully with them and use them in a way that assures your triumph and well-being.

Bogan

@Sonofason ;    Such an act might be seen as ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity under international law. 

 Well, it should not be a crime under international law.

During WW2, eastern European countries had large numbers of ethnic Germans.     After the German invaded these countries, the German minority within these countries sided with their German kith and kin.    These ethnic Germans became the now overlords of the conquored countries, because they were German, so the Nazis trusted them       As well as becoming the civil service, these new German overlords also became the Shutzstaffel, that is, the guys who went around mass murdering Jews or anybody else anybody who fought against Nazi Germany.     After the war was over, the liberated eastern European countries realised that ethnic Germans living in their country were an unacceptable threat to their peace and security,     All ethnic Germans were expelled from east Europeans countries to prevent them from becoming a fifth column for Germany again.

In Korea, there were a couple of million ethnic Japanese living in both North and South Korea.     North Korea solved the problem of a Japanese fifth column by executing all of them.    The USA was more humane, it insisted that all ethnic Japanese must leave South Korea to ensure the political stability of South Korea. 

Ethnic cleansing can be very beneficial in those countries cursed by multiculturalism.     Europe has a choice.     It either falls to Islam, or it expels Muslims from their land.

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin ;refused, over and over again, to condemn cutting off baby's heads

And here goes lier boy once again twisting things a round to make it sound like the load of diss honest crap he wants to push. Of coarse as any honest sensible person knows she refused to comment. And as any descent honest person knows the reporter was asking a nasty straw man question because as every descent honest person knows that there were absolutely no confirmed truthful reports that such a thing ever happened. And as any descent honest person knows there are going to be lying dishonest scum out there who will jump on exstream gutter journalism to use for there own self centered evil purposes. When are you ever going to stop pushing your sick offencive crap.

Biden has confirmed that he saw the pictures with babies with their heads chopped off.  

Biden says he saw photos of 'terrorists beheading children' in Israel-Hamas war

Biden says he’s seen ‘confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children’ in Israel

So is Biden lying, or are you?  

Ampersand

@just_sayin

Try reading your own articles for longer than the headline as it explains that:

“But neither the president nor US officials have seen images or independently confirmed reports of beheaded children, a White House spokesperson later clarified, according to the Washington Post.“

Also the New York Post is a sensationalist trash news source.

Dee

@just_sayin

So is Biden lying or are you.

You are the one lying actually.

It's also remarkable that you constantly call Biden corrupt and a until you think he supports your nonsense

Even The Times of Israel disputes your nonsense.....

The White House clarifies that President Joe Biden and other US officials have not seen or independently confirmed that Hamas terrorists beheaded Israeli children.

The clarification comes after Biden told Jewish leaders at the White House: “It is important for Americans to see what is happening. I have been doing this for a long time. I never thought that I would see, have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children.”

A White House spokesperson says the president based his comments on claims from Netanyahu’s spokesman and media reports from Israel.

" Netanyahu's spokesman" one could not believe a word out of the snake Nethayahus mouth .

Barnardot

@just_sayin ;So is Biden lying, or are you?  

Neither. It is you who is lying as usual. BNiden never said any thing of the sort.

But may be I'm completely wrong. May be the first video just had a glitch that turned the sound off and may be it was just a coincidence that the second video had the sound turned off to. It certainly wasn't lier boy up to his usual deceiving tricks was it.

And you didnt resort to lying by posting Exstream doctored links which have a time stamp over dubbed under a Fox News article did you. Which is irrelevant any way because why would a respected politician respond to such a baited question when at the time no facts were known because the video was shot the day before the time stamp. So may be it was just another little glitch with the video.  

And of coarse you just happened to forget to respond about being outed about the liers you made up about my work mates being illegal immigrants and ex prisoners and lieing about me actually saying that they were.

No lier boy doesn't lie because I just make all that up don't I.

piloteer

@Bogan

There are two kinds of people on this earth. Americans, and non-Americans. And as soon as an American concerns themselves with non-American collectivist principles, they too become non-American. 

My "self declared enemy" is anyone who is willing to support taxing my family for the sake of any cause that doesn't actually benefit my family directly. I come first, not the world!!!! It wouldn't hurt me or my family if Jewish people could not "live together" as you claim they should and all want to (regardless of the fact that Judaism is practiced all around the world). This is true and I know it to be true because our family is currently doing just fine now, in this time when Jewish people are not living together in one country. It is not the responsibility of me or my family to ensure Jewish people feel safe and cozy and together in their own country. In fact, it is not me or my families responsibility to support anyone but ourselves. If they cannot fight for and gain freedom of their own accord, then they deserve NO freedom!!!!! 

As far as countries who the US should support, ideally none is the correct answer, but if we had to, I fail to see why we would want to support a country that has no real economic benefit for the US. China, Saudi Arabia, Britain, hell even Canada if need be. Those are countries that have strong economic ties with the US. Britain, France (meh), and Canada are our strongest allies and it is those countries that should be considered first for any kind of economic or military  support. But the best thing about those countries is they really don't need support, and that's OK in my book.       

A true nationalist would not concern themselves with what Donald Trump thinks is a good global economic policy for the US because he's just another republicrat who has no plans of getting rid of our minimum wage requirements or ending social security. He and the so called republicans have done nothing to reverse the communist European policies that have been destroying my country since the 1930s. No person who may know what Putin's d!ck tastes like can call themselves any kind of self respecting nationalist, contrary to his claims that he is.   
 

piloteer

@Bogan

And yes Bogan, I am saying the Jewish people in Isreal should leave and come to the US. The Zionist dream is gone. Let the Palestinian people have their native land. 

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: "Native" Palestinians Nonsense

@piloteer

The timeline of human settlement in Palestine/Israel is long and complex, dating back to the Paleolithic era. The first humans arrived in the region around 200,000 years ago. The first permanent settlements were established in the region around 10,000 years ago.

Over the centuries, the region has been ruled by a variety of different empires and civilizations, including the Canaanites, Israelites, Philistines, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, and Ottomans.

The Jewish people have a long history in the region. The first Jews arrived in the region around 3,500 years ago. The Israelites established a kingdom in the region around 1,000 years ago. The kingdom was divided into two kingdoms, Israel and Judah, around 930 BCE. The kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in 722 BCE, and the kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians in 586 BCE.

The Jewish people were exiled from the region in 586 BCE. They returned to the region in 538 BCE, after the Babylonians were defeated by the Persians. The Jewish people built the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 515 BCE.

The Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE. The Jewish people were exiled from the region again. They were not allowed to return to the region until the 19th century.

In the 19th century, the Zionist movement began to promote the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The Zionist movement gained momentum in the early 20th century, after the Holocaust.

The State of Israel was established in 1948.  There was never a sovereign "palestinian" state.

Ampersand

@JulesKorngold

That there is no Palestinian state because the Palestinians are being denied their basic human rights, among them the right to self determination and to form a government, is kind of the very point that you seem to be missing.