Why is the Progressive-Socialist Societal Utopia a disasterous failure?

MayCaesar

Friedrich Hayek wrote an amazing book called "The Road to Serfdom" explaining why statism inevitably results in a dictatorship; it is a very difficult book, and you probably have to read it 3-4 times to fully understand and process the argument. 
William McNeill wrote another, even more difficult book called "The Rise of the West", where he argued the positive side of the issue: why individualism leads to liberty.
These books together can take years to digest fully, and even then you will probably want to come back to them every now and then to align what you learned from them with your newfound life experiences.

But there is another explanation... "Just read this passage in the Bible!" That is an explanation for people with Rickey's intellectual capacity.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; Where has your "intellectual capacity" gotten you May? You're spiritually dead, you have zero knowledge concerning our creation, our purpose in Time and our future...you just "exist" in arrogance and spiritual ignorance.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

A perpetually drunk alcoholic would not know what it is like to live in sobriety.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; Just as the spiritually dead does not know the joy of life in the Spirit.

just_sayin

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Why is the Progressive-Socialist Societal Utopia a disastrous failure?

Human Nature is evil (Genesis 6:5) and this is a major disconnect for the mindless Progressive-Democrat who suggests that a human being is inherently "good" and all that is required for that "good" to manifest in a society is to provide same with Maslow's needs, an environment that meets basic human needs and humanity will flourish like a flower...this is a Marxist-Socialist utopian LIE...a welfare state that is consumed in infidelity, laziness, stupidity, DEI, Affirmative Action, Reverse Discrimination, Hate, Lawlessness.

We see this failed ideology of a "Socialist-Progressive Utopia" on the streets of our larger municipalities today in the United States, the "sanctuary cities" governed by mindless, nitwit, Progressives, and their pandering to these evil, lawless, thug elements, post no bail, reduced or no adjudication, defund the police, open the borders. This is demonic at its root, stupidity in its practice, insanity in its reality. It is the spiritual idiocy of Progressive "do-gooders" who advocate for this false dichotomy of unrestrained human nature and societal utopia...it's disgusting and it's insanity and our most innocent suffer greatly.

Solution?...

The ONLY solution to Progressive Insanity thrust upon American society is either civil war to put the demonic initiatives of Democrats in-check or reopen and fully fund state-run insane asylums and incarcerate 2/3rd's of the Democrats-Progressives in psychiatric treatment; then, fallen America will realize some semblance of a "utopia" that is actually sustainable.

Communism/Socialism looks great on paper but it never works.  In Cuba, they have a saying 'We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us'.  When you take away the ability for someone to get ahead and excel, then there is no need to try hard.  Why work hard when you will get the same pay either way?  Why take risks when the government will just take what you earned?  The answer is you don't.  You do what you have to do and no more.  As a result, innovation and hard work disappear.

Venezuela was once the most prosperous South America.  Since communism took over it is now one of the poorest.  Cuba was the most prosperous country in the Caribbean, now it is one of the poorest.  At the time of the split North and South Korea were on equal grounds.  Now South Korea is a thriving country while North Korea has to shoot its own people for trying to escape the country. 

The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied. - Proverbs 13:4

Bible verses on not stealing and not coveting also come to mind.  I know this will especially cause @Dreamer to react like a vampire looking at a wooden cross dipped in holy water seasoned with garlic  right as the sun comes up.  

 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@just_sayin ; A Nation and people who seek to honor our Creator and His moral law seek that which is sustainable.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

There is a certain truth to the statement that people with severely impaired intellectual facility experience more joy in life: it takes very little for them to be satisfied for they have a very limited imagination and set of desires. No person with strong intellectual facility will ever want this life, however. You cannot imagine the degree of joy that a more sophisticated mind can experience, and the lows that we experience make life more juicy and interesting.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; It is not intellectualism that finds life nihilistic but the one who seeks to live life in this fallen World without the Giver of Life and the Sustainer of Life, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Life void the Spirit is futile...brief joy and some ecstasy that never lasts, never endures, the body ages, the pains come...the disappointments and failed dreams can sometimes overwhelm but the one who trusts in the Life Giver finds peace through the Holy Spirit and purpose in intimacy with our Creator...He is the One who fills the vacuum within the soul/spirit of mankind...we were created to commune with Him in intimacy, forever. 

 

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Your continuous word salad does not support your case.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; You can't understand because the subject matter is about YOU...and the horrible people represented in this forum who murder babies with glee; espouse the filth of LGBTQ and push same upon America's youth; you espouse crime and criminals and defame the police and law and order...you are a wicked and vile people whose judgment in Hell is most fitting...you hate the Nation I love and served...you are wicked to the core...I hate your evil.

Openminded

Argument Topic: You can't understand because the subject matter is about YOU...and the horrible people represented in this forum

@RickeyHoltsclaw

There are no shortcuts to being a good person, least of all ¨right belief.¨

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Openminded ; The "right belief"  is to trust in our Creator and what He has said...only then are our "beliefs" sustainable and honorable.

Openminded

Argument Topic: The "right belief" is to trust in our Creator and what He has said...only then are our "beliefs" sustainable and honorable.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; You can't understand because the subject matter is about YOU...and the horrible people represented in this forum who murder babies with glee; espouse the filth of LGBTQ and push same upon America's youth; you espouse crime and criminals and defame the police and law and order...you are a wicked and vile people whose judgment in Hell is most fitting...you hate the Nation I love and served...you are wicked to the core...I hate your evil.

I do none of that - but keep consuming the mushrooms, and your visions will get even more interesting!

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Openminded ;  You do NOT enter into covenant relationship with our Creator by what you DO but in Whom you believe (Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:16-18). New Covenant relationship with our Creator, Jesus Christ, is initiated, established, by faith, alone. 

Any work or effort or "dirty hands" that follow must be the product of the indwelling Holy Spirit during daily sanctification of the faithful in Jesus (Galatians 5:16). If you desire LIFE, you will "believe" in the Life Giver, Jesus Christ, and subsequently walk by the Holy Spirit producing fruit that honors the Father.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;  You are dead spiritually - impotent in the work of what is sustainable in this life and in the life to come....you are a horrible person...the shadow of death concerning the mind, body, soul, follows you.

jack

Argument Topic: Why is the Progressive-Socialist Societal Utopia a disasterous failure?

@RickeyHoltsclaw

As Ben Franklin said, "It's a Republic, if you can keep it"..  He knew how precarious a democracy is - how easy it can slip away if you're not diligent...  Whatever you think of the left, it's a million times better than theocracy.  That's just so. 

Seems like somebody who fought to defend the Constitution would know better.  No, huh?

excon

John_C_87

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Why is the Progressive-Socialist Societal Utopia a disastrous failure? 
Are you talking about Heaven?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@jack ;  I founders fled a theocracy...that was NOT their goal but in that same vein...our Founders knew that if a limited form of Federal Government, one that maximized personal freedoms, was to exist and be sustainable over the long haul, the society that it governed would be required to have some form of internal control over the narcissistic urges of the Adamic sin-nature lest lawlessness and chaos culminated in implosion of the Republic; therefore, our Founders impressed upon the Republic via their writings that in order for the United States to be sustained as a viable Republic, Christianity, in its purist form, with the indwelling Holy Spirit as arbiter of man's free will must be the guiding Light of a free people whose lives were governed not by men but by Elohim, our Creator who endows us with the inalienable rights of life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.

The modern-day "Left" does NOT espouse the work of the indwelling Holy Spirit, or Jesus Christ but they clamor and fight for their rejection from all institutions of governance; therefore, America is dying in Progressive - Leftist - Democrat FILTH and debasement.

John_C_87

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men
equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them

Declaration of Independence: A Transcription | National Archives

Some abridge the meaning of " father" with legal council.
Some as a group abridge Nature's God with there own.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@John_C_87

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@John_C_87

You do realize the 'free exercise of religion' applies to the desire to abstain completely from it as well, I hope. Why don't you ever practice christian forbearance, ricky?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; No...America's Constitutional Republic cannot be sustained under the idiocy and demonic tenets of atheism...you do NOT belong here...you are a malignancy in our Nation...though you have to be tolerated, you are not welcome. If one knows America's history, Islam and Atheism would be barred from entry.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;  You are dead spiritually - impotent in the work of what is sustainable in this life and in the life to come....you are a horrible person...the shadow of death concerning the mind, body, soul, follows you.

When someone like you tells me I am a horrible person, I know my life is on the right track!

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; No...America's Constitutional Republic cannot be sustained under the idiocy and demonic tenets of atheism...you do NOT belong here...you are a malignancy in our Nation...though you have to be tolerated, you are not welcome. If one knows America's history, Islam and Atheism would be barred from entry.

You do not spread christian love, you spew religious zealotry. Exact opposite of what your myth book doctrine is. Don't dodge the question: Why don't you ever practice christian forbearance, ricky

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I simply tell you the Truth...until the last 40-50-years, Atheism was seen as a curse in America...you who claim the title "atheist" were feared and ostracized and even today, in our PC Society, I still hear conservatives aghast at those who proclaim they're atheists...it's a vulgar and antisocial ideology...it's death, it's hopelessness...it's contrary to logic and reason and all that is sustainable...I tell you this because most are too fearful to tell the Truth due to societal condemnation...I don't care about society or their judgment.

I would NOT want an atheist as a neighbor...nor would I desire one in my foxhole as a Marine or in my patrol vehicle as a Police Officer...our Nation cannot be sustained by the atheist-secular humanist ideology...it is of the devil and it is NOT sustainable in our Constitutional Republic. 

 

John_C_87

@RickeyHoltsclaw

As a whole truth "Our Creator" in context to a United State the brings us together, not God as a religion and it is while nature's GOD not man's god is whole truth. The truth remains only to be held whole, the way all men as a united state can have a liberty at religions is when the religion all men hold only need to be free, meaning without cost to the people. RickeyHoltsclaw most of the quotes you bring to the debate are written construction in principles with no effort placed to the creation of a more perfect state of the union with estabished justice. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@John_C_87 ; That makes absolutely no sense.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Actions speak louder than worlds. In another thread you earlier said that the Bible helped you find peace and contentment - yet you are constantly expressing hatred and anger towards those who do not share your insane beliefs. You are a very miserable person, and the depth of your confusion is such that you have lost all ability to even distinguish misery from its absence.

Whatever your insanity tells you about me, I walk around with a smile - a close friend once told me that I smile so much, it looks like I am constantly on drugs - I take a very good care of the people dearest to me, I am constantly working hard on myself, setting new goals, come up with new ideas that push organizations I work in forward.

You would not know what it is like to live a happy, interesting, exciting life. That requires courage, determination, willpower. You forfeited it all and chose the path of a cowardly follower, letting authors of an old fantasy book tell you how to live... You have no agency, your brain is inert, you are extremely miserable, you spend most of your time making everyone else's day worse - and in addition to that, you parasite on the technology that people you loathe so much created.

You are truly something, aren't you?

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@John_C_87 ; That makes absolutely no sense.

Of course it makes no sense to you ricky, it's called an education. It far out weighs indoctrination like what you cling to. 

But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs. In his widely read The Age of Reason, Thomas Paine, the principal American exponent of Deism, called Christianity “a fable.” Paine, the protégé of Benjamin Franklin, denied “that the Almighty ever did communicate anything to man, by…speech,…language, or…vision.” Postulating a distant deity whom he called “Nature’s God” 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Very few of our Founders were "Deists"...but they were strong Christians and Jesus was their King. You are the uneducated - the brainwashed loon of Progressivism and anti-Americanism that believes our Founding was secular when it was Christian based and pursued Christian values for the sustainability of the American experiment.

Our Founding Documents are signed "In the year of our Lord"...the Lord Jesus Christ...you make me ill with your atheistic ignorance and arrogance.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;  I am a Marine Infantryman...I am a retired Police Officer...I HATE the ideology you stand for...I have watched it destroy our society, my beloved Corps and my police department. You represent a horrible people who are fit for Hell and your wicked ideology represents the evil that is destroying my Nation...your ideology, your atheism, your secular humanism, your advocacy for the murder of babies and the vile acts of LGBTQ are wicked, vile, repulsive. Your anti-American Progressive-Socialism is demonic in origin...you are repulsive.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;  I am a Marine Infantryman...I am a retired Police Officer...I HATE the ideology you stand for...I have watched it destroy our society, my beloved Corps and my police department. You represent a horrible people who are fit for Hell and your wicked ideology represents the evil that is destroying my Nation...your ideology, your atheism, your secular humanism, your advocacy for the murder of babies and the vile acts of LGBTQ are wicked, vile, repulsive. Your anti-American Progressive-Socialism is demonic in origin...you are repulsive.

Words of a happy, content, human-loving individual indeed!

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; I am a warrior...I don't seek your acceptance or your understanding...you are representative of a horrible and unsustainable people group...I am loving to those who honor and love the Truth but you and yours are corrosive...you are death to mind, body, soul...you are the enemy of what is holy and good and righteous.

Openminded

Argument Topic: Why is the Progressive-Socialist Societal Utopia a disastrous failure?

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Why is the Progressive-Socialist Societal Utopia a disastrous failure?

Human Nature is evil (Genesis 6:5) and this is a major disconnect for the mindless Progressive-Democrat who suggests that a human being is inherently "good" and all that is required for that "good" to manifest in a society is to provide same with Maslow's needs, an environment that meets basic human needs and humanity will flourish like a flower...this is a Marxist-Socialist utopian LIE...a welfare state that is consumed in infidelity, laziness, stupidity, DEI, Affirmative Action, Reverse Discrimination, Hate, Lawlessness.

We see this failed ideology of a "Socialist-Progressive Utopia" on the streets of our larger municipalities today in the United States, the "sanctuary cities" governed by mindless, nitwit, Progressives, and their pandering to these evil, lawless, thug elements, post no bail, reduced or no adjudication, defund the police, open the borders. This is demonic at its root, stupidity in its practice, insanity in its reality. It is the spiritual idiocy of Progressive "do-gooders" who advocate for this false dichotomy of unrestrained human nature and societal utopia...it's disgusting and it's insanity and our most innocent suffer greatly.

Solution?...

The ONLY solution to Progressive Insanity thrust upon American society is either civil war to put the demonic initiatives of Democrats in-check or reopen and fully fund state-run insane asylums and incarcerate 2/3rd's of the Democrats-Progressives in psychiatric treatment; then, fallen America will realize some semblance of a "utopia" that is actually sustainable.

Phew. Are you feeling okay? Do you need some kind of intervention?  You´re either severely depressed or have adopted Trumpism to its fullest OR tethered to Fox News. I´m depressed after reading that. Maybe us Democrats are VERMIN afterall! Heil!

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Openminded ; No, just telling the Openminded the truth of their destructive nature and why our Nation is dying due their Progressive idiocy.

Openminded

Argument Topic: No, just telling the Openminded the truth of their destructive nature and why our Nation is dying due their Progressive idiocy.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

I do believe you have a God Complex.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Openminded ;  Yes, I have a "God Complex"...He is my Lord and Messiah...you too have a god complex, just a different god.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

There is that saying that you are the average of 5 people you spend the most time with. Similarly, I think it is fair to say that your intellect is the average of 5 text sources you read the most. I feel that, almost no matter what other 4 text sources I pick, reading your drivel drops my IQ by 20-30 points - which is an accomplishment, in a way.

I think you are the worst debater I have come across on this site. And if @aarong wants to ban me (instead of you) for saying that, then great! I need an excuse to stop procrastinating and wasting time talking to people like you anyway.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;  There is no peace in the volume of people in your life but in the quality of same. The judgment of one who has sold their soul to Satan is of no concern to me.

John_C_87

@RickeyHoltsclaw

The sayings with other information of the period can be interpreted in a completely different way.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Naturally. The definition of a madman is a man unable to properly process the outside information. That everyone else outside of one's tiny cult is deluded and not worth listening to is the most basic element of any insane ideology: that is how they are able to live in their self-imposed mental asylum without ever having to confront reality.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Lucky

@RickeyHoltsclaw,
You're very lucky aarong tolerates brainwashed evangelical MAGAmaniac trolls.

ZeusAres42

@JulesKorngold

He doesn't tolerate him. He is just away. This guy was banned before and will be banned again. It's just annoying though that a troll has to be bought to spiral out of control before being banned. 

ZeusAres42

@JulesKorngold

FYI, did you know that thanks to AI any religius text can quickly be found that outright contradicts multiple other religious texts? !

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

 I am a warrior... 

A regular key board rambo you are. LOL

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Nah...just one who knows you're demon and enjoys tormenting him...he deserves it.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I'm a warrior for Messiah - You're a warrior for Satan....the struggle continues...enjoy your service.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I'm a warrior for Messiah - You're a warrior for Satan....the struggle continues...enjoy your service.

Okay, now I'm with @MayCaesar. I want to know where you're getting your shrooms?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; In this life constrained by Time and physics, we're afforded the opportunity to serve our Creator through faith in the Son, Jesus Christ or serve Satan through our rejection of Jesus as our Messiah...there are no other options and there is no neutrality....you're either a servant of Jesus or you're a servant of Satan.  Elohim is your Father or Satan is your Father...if you're an atheist...you serve Satan by default. You're free to choose life or choose death.