Why is the Progressive-Socialist Societal Utopia a disasterous failure?

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

What have I said in the past few comments that was disrespectful? You keep telling me how horrible of a human being I am without knowing anything about my life and deeds, based solely on the fact of me not sharing your cosmological premises.

Imagine if atheists treated you the same. If, every time you talked about god, they said that you deserve to be tortured for eternity, that you are a horrible disgusting demonic creature for reading the Bible. And then, upon your objection, called you disrespectful. Sounds familiar, does it not?

@MayCaesar ;  You have a history of narcissistic self-endowed intellectual arrogance...you know that. You atheist do treat the faithful like a dog...that's the POINT! I DON'T LIKE YOU.

The irony of your tantrum is tremendous. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  "We've only just begun"....Ms. Carpenter

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;  You have a history of narcissistic self-endowed intellectual arrogance...you know that. You atheist do treat the faithful like a dog...that's the POINT! I DON'T LIKE YOU.

You keep throwing these accusations at me, but whenever I ask you for details, you do not provide them. Would it not be natural to say that you are looking at me, but seeing not me but your own reflection?

As I said before, I have very good Christian, Muslim and Buddhist friends, and I treat them incredibly well. I can look past some ideological/cosmological disagreements and see the person behind. This is not something we can say about you, is it? And it is not a consequence of your religiosity, but your personality.
I have absolutely no qualms with your beliefs. The problem is in your intolerance towards those who do not share them. I do not have such intolerance towards those who do not share my beliefs.

See, you come here and start insulting everyone and threatening them with eternal torment... People do not appreciate it and talk back, and then you assume that it is because of your beliefs. A little bit of self-reflection would do you good.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;  You have a history of narcissistic self-endowed intellectual arrogance...you know that. You atheist do treat the faithful like a dog...that's the POINT! I DON'T LIKE YOU.

You keep throwing these accusations at me, but whenever I ask you for details, you do not provide them. Would it not be natural to say that you are looking at me, but seeing not me but your own reflection?

As I said before, I have very good Christian, Muslim and Buddhist friends, and I treat them incredibly well. I can look past some ideological/cosmological disagreements and see the person behind. This is not something we can say about you, is it? And it is not a consequence of your religiosity, but your personality.
I have absolutely no qualms with your beliefs. The problem is in your intolerance towards those who do not share them. I do not have such intolerance towards those who do not share my beliefs.

See, you come here and start insulting everyone and threatening them with eternal torment... People do not appreciate it and talk back, and then you assume that it is because of your beliefs. A little bit of self-reflection would do you good.

@MayCaesar ; I still don't like you. Enjoy.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;  You have a history of narcissistic self-endowed intellectual arrogance...you know that. You atheist do treat the faithful like a dog...that's the POINT! I DON'T LIKE YOU.

You keep throwing these accusations at me, but whenever I ask you for details, you do not provide them. Would it not be natural to say that you are looking at me, but seeing not me but your own reflection?

As I said before, I have very good Christian, Muslim and Buddhist friends, and I treat them incredibly well. I can look past some ideological/cosmological disagreements and see the person behind. This is not something we can say about you, is it? And it is not a consequence of your religiosity, but your personality.
I have absolutely no qualms with your beliefs. The problem is in your intolerance towards those who do not share them. I do not have such intolerance towards those who do not share my beliefs.

See, you come here and start insulting everyone and threatening them with eternal torment... People do not appreciate it and talk back, and then you assume that it is because of your beliefs. A little bit of self-reflection would do you good.

@MayCaesar ; I still don't like you. Enjoy.

Then leave. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Why would I leave a forum that has showed me so much LOVE?

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Your feelings towards me are not important in the context of a debate. But if you are going to behave like a royal jackass, threatening everyone and calling them names - then you will be hit back in your nasty face.

You are not welcome here. Nobody likes you. Leave, or behave like an adult.

Barnardot

@MayCaesar @Factfinder @RickyHoltsclaw ;You are not welcome here. Nobody likes you. Leave, or behave like an adult. Then leave. 

I reckon that you guys need to losen up a bit. I have gotten to like this guy because he has guts and he can articulate his views a dam site better than most people here. You dont have to believe them but get over it. Accept this guy for what he has to say. He puts him self in to it 100% and you can learn a lot from . So come on get your aces out of the rut of mediocrity and live life to the max and see how this guy can elevate you to the next level of what ever level there is next.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Barnardot ;  Thank you! Rick

jack

Barnardot said:

I reckon that you guys need to losen up a bit. I have gotten to like this guy because he has guts and he can articulate his views a dam site better than most people here.

Hello B:

The problem isn't about WHAT he has to say.   It's HOW he says it..  He's adopted the Steve Bannon approach, which is NOT about persuasion.  It's about disorientation..   Bannon said, “The real opposition is the media.  And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with sh*t.”  That’s the Bannon business model: Flood the zone. Stink up the joint.  Rickey has learned it well..  

I support the First Amendment..  It prevents government from censoring the public.  But, this site ain't government.  It's the free market, wherein the owner of a website may post anything he wants, or take down any post he wants.

Ain't this a great country, or what?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/media/steve-bannon-reliable-sources/index.html

excon

RickeyHoltsclaw

jack said:

Barnardot said:

I reckon that you guys need to losen up a bit. I have gotten to like this guy because he has guts and he can articulate his views a dam site better than most people here.

Hello B:

The problem isn't about WHAT he has to say.   It's HOW he says it..  He's adopted the Steve Bannon approach, which is NOT about persuasion.  It's about disorientation..   Bannon said, “The real opposition is the media.  And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with sh*t.”  That’s the Bannon business model: Flood the zone. Stink up the joint.  Rickey has learned it well..  

I support the First Amendment..  It prevents government from censoring the public.  But, this site ain't government.  It's the free market, wherein the owner of a website may post anything he wants, or take down any post he wants.

Ain't this a great country, or what?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/media/steve-bannon-reliable-sources/index.html

excon

@jack ;  You might not appreciate my style but I'll be honest with you. If one insults my Lord, the Scriptures, I'll return same with Truth accompanied by personal vitriol for the insult...I'm NOT a pacifist. If one is reasonable and respectful, they will receive in-kind multiplied by love.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

jack said:

Barnardot said:

I reckon that you guys need to losen up a bit. I have gotten to like this guy because he has guts and he can articulate his views a dam site better than most people here.

Hello B:

The problem isn't about WHAT he has to say.   It's HOW he says it..  He's adopted the Steve Bannon approach, which is NOT about persuasion.  It's about disorientation..   Bannon said, “The real opposition is the media.  And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with sh*t.”  That’s the Bannon business model: Flood the zone. Stink up the joint.  Rickey has learned it well..  

I support the First Amendment..  It prevents government from censoring the public.  But, this site ain't government.  It's the free market, wherein the owner of a website may post anything he wants, or take down any post he wants.

Ain't this a great country, or what?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/media/steve-bannon-reliable-sources/index.html

excon

@jack ;  You might not appreciate my style but I'll be honest with you. If one insults my Lord, the Scriptures, I'll return same with Truth accompanied by personal vitriol for the insult...I'm NOT a pacifist. If one is reasonable and respectful, they will receive in-kind multiplied by love.

One can not insult that which does not exist. You ricky, get insulted when people don't share your faith. or your bigoted views on minorities.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

jack said:

Barnardot said:

I reckon that you guys need to losen up a bit. I have gotten to like this guy because he has guts and he can articulate his views a dam site better than most people here.

Hello B:

The problem isn't about WHAT he has to say.   It's HOW he says it..  He's adopted the Steve Bannon approach, which is NOT about persuasion.  It's about disorientation..   Bannon said, “The real opposition is the media.  And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with sh*t.”  That’s the Bannon business model: Flood the zone. Stink up the joint.  Rickey has learned it well..  

I support the First Amendment..  It prevents government from censoring the public.  But, this site ain't government.  It's the free market, wherein the owner of a website may post anything he wants, or take down any post he wants.

Ain't this a great country, or what?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/media/steve-bannon-reliable-sources/index.html

excon

@jack ;  You might not appreciate my style but I'll be honest with you. If one insults my Lord, the Scriptures, I'll return same with Truth accompanied by personal vitriol for the insult...I'm NOT a pacifist. If one is reasonable and respectful, they will receive in-kind multiplied by love.

One can not insult that which does not exist. You ricky, get insulted when people don't share your faith. or your bigoted views on minorities.

@Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42   Why would I be insulted by YOUR choice to die in Hell? I am insulted by the presence of atheism as it defines the root of evil in the World and that by which our most innocent suffer...I hate evil.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

If you really hated evil ricky, you'd sell all that you have and give everything to charity like your master told you to do...

Jesus said unto him, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell what thou hast and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in Heaven; and come and follow Me. Matthew19:21

But you'd rather keep your possessions and bicker on the internet. Hurling insults at gays, atheists, minorities and basically everyone smarter than you. If there is a hell, we'll see you there.

MayCaesar

I think I am at the point where I cannot come up with anything to say to this guy that does not involve an insult.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder

Factfinder said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

If you really hated evil ricky, you'd sell all that you have and give everything to charity like your master told you to do...

Jesus said unto him, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell what thou hast and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in Heaven; and come and follow Me. Matthew19:21

But you'd rather keep your possessions and bicker on the internet. Hurling insults at gays, atheists, minorities and basically everyone smarter than you. If there is a hell, we'll see you there.

@Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 Jesus never told me to sell my possessions...you don't understand the discourse between the Rich Young Ruler and Jesus in Matthew 19 and the theological lessons integral with that conversation.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus was in a theological discourse with a wealthy young man who approached Him asking “What must I ‘do’ to ‘inherit’ eternal life.”

The very first thing Jesus did, out of compassion, was to provide the young man an opportunity to acquire eternal life by “faith” in Jesus as Messiah-Elohim; that is, Jesus asked, “Why do you call me ‘good’ seeing that no one is good but Elohim?” Had the young man possessed the faith to acknowledge Jesus as Elohim the Messiah, eternal life would have been granted (Romans 10:13).

Unfortunately, the young man did not recognize Jesus as Messiah; therefore, Jesus provided the only other alternative to eternal life, Jesus commanded, “Keep the Commandments.” The young man then assumed himself on fertile ground as he felt himself to be righteous due all of his efforts to keep the Commandments…so he asked Jesus, “Which ones?” Jesus recited a number of moral commands to which the young man boldly and proudly stated that he had kept them…then…Jesus proceeded to demonstrate to the young man that he had NOT kept the Commandments but had failed to keep the Greatest of Commandments…Jesus, once again, provided the young man a second opportunity to find eternal life and commanded the young man to “follow me.” Jesus told the young man to sell all of his wealth, distribute it to the poor and “follow me!” Had the young man complied by faith, eternal life would have manifest in the young man’s life.

The young man walked away sad and disheartened because he loved his wealth more than Elohim thus demonstrating that he did not keep the Greatest Commandments to love Elohim above all else and to love your neighbor as yourself but the young man had made an idol of his wealth (Matthew 22:36-40).

I tell you this protracted story because you are DEAD WRONG if you think anyone but Jesus keeps the Commandments in perfection (Romans 3:23) which perfection is absolutely necessary if righteousness (a right standing) with Elohim is to manifest (James 2:10) through works of the Law (Galatians 2:16) and you are DEAD WRONG if you think the Law does anything but CURSE the one who seeks righteousness (a right standing with Elohim) through it (Galatians 3:10).

IF YOU DESIRE ETERNAL LIFE YOU MUST HUMBLE YOURSELF AND APPROACH ELOHIM BY FAITH AS AN UNWORTHY SINNER THAT YOU ARE AND ASK FORGIVENESS, REPENT OF YOUR SIN, TRUST FULLY IN JESUS AS YOUR MESSIAH WHO SHED HIS BLOOD FOR THE ATONEMENT OF YOUR SIN AT GOLGOTHA! 1 Peter 1:18-19

Humanity finds righteousness with Elohim NOT by what we do but in Whom we “believe.” John 3

Christians “work,” they produce divine “fruit” (Galatians 5:22-23), subsequent salvation by faith in Jesus as Christians “walk by the Spirit” (Galatians 5:16) in faith as they love Elohim and honor Him through obedience to the indwelling Holy Spirit, not enslavement to a bygone law covenant (Romans 7:6; Hebrews 8:7).

socdem123

Argument Topic: The OP is intellectually dishonest

He calls those policies "socialist" when in reality they are socialy democratic ideas, which involves policie which aim to fix or reduce the impact of issues in capitalism such as wealth inequality etc. 
Affirmative action is wrong but attributing it so socialism means you have no idea what it is.
Also @MayCaesar, while the idea that stateism does lead to dictatorships is true, sometimes statism is necessary so that reactionary elements in society (monarchists or those who want to keep traditional haierarchy or hierarchy in general) are eliminated. When this is done, the state should be abolished. Ofcourse you can argue that some "socialist" government may want to keep their position. If the reactionary elements in society are removed by the state then you demolish the state, if the leader is corrupt you kill them and do everything neccessary to turn society into a classless society.

just_sayin

socdem123 said:

He calls those policies "socialist" when in reality they are socialy democratic ideas, which involves policie which aim to fix or reduce the impact of issues in capitalism such as wealth inequality etc. 
Affirmative action is wrong but attributing it so socialism means you have no idea what it is.
Also @MayCaesar, while the idea that stateism does lead to dictatorships is true, sometimes statism is necessary so that reactionary elements in society (monarchists or those who want to keep traditional haierarchy or hierarchy in general) are eliminated. When this is done, the state should be abolished. Ofcourse you can argue that some "socialist" government may want to keep their position. If the reactionary elements in society are removed by the state then you demolish the state, if the leader is corrupt you kill them and do everything neccessary to turn society into a classless society.

Welcome to the site.

I would argue that wealth inequality is not the issue.  For example in North Korea and Cuba there is far less wealth inequality than in the US, but there is far less wealth also.  In the last 20 years or so, capitalism has raised 1 billion people out of poverty.  Socialism doesn't do that.  If that were the case, then countries like North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba would be some of the richest countries on the planet, instead of incredibly poor, compared to their neighboring countries.  

In Cuba, Castro said 'why do the people need guns, we the state will protect you.'  Then they took people's guns.  Then they took away freedom of the press.  Then they took away the right for people to freely assemble.  They made it illegal for any other political party other than the communist one to run for elections.  They put their political prisoners in jail.  They decided who could go to college and who could not.  And they shot and killed anyone who tried to flee the island.  If only the people had kept their guns.  

RickeyHoltsclaw

socdem123 said:

He calls those policies "socialist" when in reality they are socialy democratic ideas, which involves policie which aim to fix or reduce the impact of issues in capitalism such as wealth inequality etc. 
Affirmative action is wrong but attributing it so socialism means you have no idea what it is.
Also @MayCaesar, while the idea that stateism does lead to dictatorships is true, sometimes statism is necessary so that reactionary elements in society (monarchists or those who want to keep traditional haierarchy or hierarchy in general) are eliminated. When this is done, the state should be abolished. Ofcourse you can argue that some "socialist" government may want to keep their position. If the reactionary elements in society are removed by the state then you demolish the state, if the leader is corrupt you kill them and do everything neccessary to turn society into a classless society.

@socdem123 ; Affirmative Action mandates are racist and immoral and illegal.

MayCaesar

socdem123 said:

Also @MayCaesar, while the idea that stateism does lead to dictatorships is true, sometimes statism is necessary so that reactionary elements in society (monarchists or those who want to keep traditional haierarchy or hierarchy in general) are eliminated. When this is done, the state should be abolished. Ofcourse you can argue that some "socialist" government may want to keep their position. If the reactionary elements in society are removed by the state then you demolish the state, if the leader is corrupt you kill them and do everything neccessary to turn society into a classless society.

What you said sounds like criticism of statism to me, not its endorsement. "Eliminating" reactionary elements is precisely what states run amok do, reactionary elements obviously being those who are not fully in line with the dictator's whim. The dictator can either be one man running everything, a council of such dictators, or the mob enforcing its will through sheer numbers. Does not make much difference to the outcome, which is complete elimination of individual autonomy and subjugation of everyone and everything to the central doctrine.

I disapprove of governments on the ground of their inherent coerciveness. Replacement of a government with the rule of the bloodthirsty mob is not an improvement, and is a movement in a very wrong direction.

Voluntary hierarchies are useful: organizations with proper hierarchical structure are far more efficient than a free-for-all do-whatever-you-want conglomeration of random people. The idea of abolishing all hierarchies sounds horrible to me, and would turn the world into a giant circus. Circus where a kid playing video games in his basement all day has as much say in how the world works as a businessman running tens of companies and holding billions dollars worth of assets. I do not want to live in a world like this.

Factfinder

Barnardot said:

@MayCaesar @Factfinder @RickyHoltsclaw ;You are not welcome here. Nobody likes you. Leave, or behave like an adult. Then leave. 

I reckon that you guys need to losen up a bit. I have gotten to like this guy because he has guts and he can articulate his views a dam site better than most people here. You dont have to believe them but get over it. Accept this guy for what he has to say. He puts him self in to it 100% and you can learn a lot from . So come on get your aces out of the rut of mediocrity and live life to the max and see how this guy can elevate you to the next level of what ever level there is next.

Well sometimes he articulates, usually though he parrots indoctrination and bible verses.  It's not like we insist he leave, it's more like if he don't like us, why stay?

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

Barnardot said:

@MayCaesar @Factfinder @RickyHoltsclaw ;You are not welcome here. Nobody likes you. Leave, or behave like an adult. Then leave. 

I reckon that you guys need to losen up a bit. I have gotten to like this guy because he has guts and he can articulate his views a dam site better than most people here. You dont have to believe them but get over it. Accept this guy for what he has to say. He puts him self in to it 100% and you can learn a lot from . So come on get your aces out of the rut of mediocrity and live life to the max and see how this guy can elevate you to the next level of what ever level there is next.

Well sometimes he articulates, usually though he parrots indoctrination and bible verses.  It's not like we insist he leave, it's more like if he don't like us, why stay?

@Factfinder ;  I love you guys...I loathe your atheism...but you have the right to be an atheist...