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John Adams quote:
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other, see:
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-02-02-3102
American Revolution was this—it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the precepts of Christianity. See the actual letter here: http://rrsupplement.blogspot.com/2011/11/john-quincy-adams-to-autograph.html
also see this “Fake Quote Link” concerning Adam’s quote and a correction in the link verifies the veracity of Adam’s quote about America found upon Christian Principles: https://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/fake-quotations-adams-and-the-indissoluble-bond/
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Your church is not the law and will never be. Period.
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http://apologeticspress.org/apPubPage.aspx?pub=1&issue=1097
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1. "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law"
Jefferson was referring to the common law of England which he identified as the collection of laws which existed prior to the Magna Carta. He was not referring to the laws of America. Here is the context from which your quote was taken:
"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law, or lex non scripta, and commences that of the statute law, or Lex Scripta. This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here, then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it. If it ever was adopted, therefore, into the common law, it must have been between the introduction of Christianity and the date of the Magna Charta. But of the laws of this period we have a tolerable collection by Lambard and Wilkins, probably not perfect, but neither very defective; and if any one chooses to build a doctrine on any law of that period, supposed to have been lost, it is incumbent on him to prove it to have existed, and what were its contents. These were so far alterations of the common law, and became themselves a part of it. But none of these adopt Christianity as a part of the common law. If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are all able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
2. "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"
Jefferson never said this. What he actually said was:
"This was the real ground of all the attacks on you. Those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy,– the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man,– endeavored to crush your well-earnt & well-deserved fame."
This is an excerpt from a letter that Jefferson wrote to a dissenting minister from England named Joseph Priestley. Both Jefferson and Priestley believed that the doctrines preached by Jesus Christ had been corrupted by the mainline churches of Christianity. Priestly even published a book entitled "An History of the Corruptions of Christianity" in which he attempted to trace how various perversions of Christ's original doctrines had taken place throughout history. Neither Jefferson nor Priestly claimed that Christianity was corrupt in itself. Rather, they argued that the mainline churches had perverted the gospel of Christ just as Paul had warned in Galatians 1:7. Jefferson viewed Christianity as a sublime and benevolent religion which had often been perverted by those desiring to twist it to fit their own purposes.
3. "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
This was never said by Adams or any other American. It comes from a very poor attempt to translate from Arabic into English a letter written by the Dey of Agiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. I devoted an entire chapter of my book Hidden Facts of the Founding Era to discussing this quote and the many errors surrounding it. You can read that chapter online for free at this link.
4. "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine had practically no influence on the formation of America. He was hated and despised by most Americans, and when the founding fathers discovered that he had been imprisoned in Parris during the French Revolution, they wrote to each other that it would be best if he spent the rest of his years rotting in a French cell. Paine's only claim to influence in the American Revolution was the pamphlet "Common Sense," but that pamphlet was actually commissioned by Dr. Benjamin Rush who oversaw it's writing and recommended it to other leaders of the Revolution once it met with his approval.
5. "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together."
Madison was discussing the question of whether we ought to have an established religion. Here is the context from which your quote was taken:
"Notwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, & the full establishment of it, in some parts of our Country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Govt. & Religion neither can be duly supported.
"Such indeed is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded agst. And in a Govt. of opinion, like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject.
"Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
"It was the belief of all sects at one time that the establishment of Religion by law, was right & necessary; that the true religion ought to be established in exclusion of every other; And that the only question to be decided was which was the true religion ... The example of the Colonies, now States, which rejected religious establishments altogether, proved that all Sects might be safely & advantageously put on a footing of equal & entire freedom; and a continuance of their example since the declaration of Independence, has shewn that its success in Colonies was not to be ascribed to their connection with the parent Country. If a further confirmation of the truth could be wanted, it is to be found in the examples furnished by the States, which have abolished their religious establishments."
Madison was not objecting to the idea of establishing a government on religious principles which is what most Christian mean when they claim that America was founded as a Christian nation. He was simply opposed to the establishment of a state religion. By the way, the concept of a separation between church and state is itself a religious concept which was introduced into America by the Baptists. As I wrote in my book "Hidden Facts of the Founding Era":
The concept of true freedom of religion was introduced in America by the Baptists of Rhode Island. George Bancroft, the famous American historian, recorded that in November of 1658, the colonists of Rhode Island requested that Roger Williams plead their case before the king that they would 'not be compelled to exercise any civil power over men's consciences.' They declared that it was their goal 'to hold forth a lively experiment, that a most flourishing civil state may stand, and best be maintained, with a full liberty of religious concernments.' The king consented to their request, and in July of 1663, he signed the Charter of Rhode Island which included the following statement:
'Our royal will and pleasure is, that no person within the said colony, at any time hereafter, shall be any wise molested, punished, disquieted, or called in question, for any differences in opinion in matters of religion.'
Then, in May of 1664, the legislature of that colony passed the first law in American history which established true religious freedom. That law stated that:
'No person shall at any time hereafter be any ways called in question for any difference of opinion in matters of religion.'
In May of 1665, the legislature reaffirmed this law with a statement declaring that religious freedom had been granted in Rhode Island ever since Roger Williams began the settlement there in 1636. Their statement said:
'Liberty to all persons, as to the worship of God, had been a principle maintained in the colony from the very beginning thereof; and it was much in their hearts to preserve the same liberty forever.'
And then in 1680, they issued yet another statement declaring:
'We leave every man to walk as God persuades his heart; all our people enjoy freedom of conscience.'
...After relaying the above facts about Rhode Island, Mr. Bancroft wrote: 'Freedom of conscience, unlimited freedom of mind, was, from the first, the trophy of the Baptists.'
By the way, Roger Williams and the Baptists of Rhode Island were influenced by Thomas Helwys, a Baptist preacher in England who wrote the earliest recorded defense of religious freedom in the English language.
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Until you can prove that we are able to create a form of government on earth that is as legitimate as the kingdom of heaven, your other arguments are just rhetorical and meaningless. Since no form of government created on earth by humans can be legitimate in the eyes of God, it is up to us to create our own form of government for the duration of our time on earth. Whatever form of government that may be, it will not be handed down to us by God because all forms of earthly government will be illegitimate in the eyes of God. It is up to us alone, and basing a government on rejecting people who you don't like is not what the bible calls for. Try reading deeper into your good book before you make arguments here!
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The hate is strong in this one, so much hate for a self-proclaimed christian... Probably a Fred Phelps disciple and definitely a psychiatric case...
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You are incorrect again. Obviously the United States was not created by Jesus Christ because we allow pride for our country. Pride is a sin. Therefore, Jesus Christ was not the creator of the United States. This point is further evidence by the fact that the constitution that legitimized the founding of the republic of the United States was not signed by Jesus Christ. You are wrrrronnnnnnggggggg!
My argument still stands. And my proof can be found in your bible. No form of earthly government is legitimate in the eyes of God, so it is up to society alone to create our own form of government without any interference from God, or Jesus.
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Own your hate little coward, it already owns you...
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This country was founded on the ideals of individual liberty, one of the essential ones being unrestricted freedom of speech, and another one being separation of religion from state and religious pluralism. If you believe that socialists and atheists being able to voice their opinion publicly and push through anti-Christian policies is a sign of the death of the country, then blame the Founding Fathers for killing it, well over 200 years ago.
As far as I am concerned, this country is better than it has ever been. Our quality of life was unimaginable just 50 years ago; we are able to interact with billions people from all over the world with a few clicks; there are so many quick and easy ways to earn a lot of money by utilising instant access to exabytes of information...
But as always, in any system, there is someone who will stick to ancient ways and think that progress is scary and undesirable. When we all wear augmented reality glasses and live for thousands years due to genetic engineering, nanotechnology and cybernetics achievements, you folks will still plug the soil by hand, watch VHS movies, use phone yellow books, drive 80 years old trucks and wonder why life is so hard.
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Having policed this suffering society for 31-years, I’ve never understood how a man or woman possessing even a modicum of common decency, wisdom, logic, patriotism, discernment, can support a Political Party i.e. Progressive-Socialist-Democrats that represent flagrant racism; bigotry; misogyny; hate; anti-American/anti-Israel/anti-Christian/pro-Islamic initiatives including…
1) The mutilation of babies in the womb up to the ninth-month thereby denying these innocent children their 5th/14th-Amendment due process protections. Some 61-million babies murdered thus far subsequent to Roe v. Wade (1973). Anyone who votes for a Progressive-Socialist-Democrat has the blood of innocent, slaughtered, babies via abortion on their hands and their culpability will be Judged in Eternity before our Holy, Just, Righteous, Creator, Jesus Christ-Yeshua!
2) Sexual perversion that is destroying America’s posterity in confusion, disease, addiction, mental illness, incredible rates of suicide, hopelessness.
3) Socialism that is destroying America’s Constitutional Republic and Capitalist economic success. Socialism that is responsible for 100-million deaths in the last 100-years.
4) Open Border initiatives which are destroying America’s sovereignty through non-assimilating multiculturalism, disease, murder of American citizens by illegal aliens, economic deprivation – employment scarcity for American low-wage earners; destruction to America’s schools through overpopulation/lowered academic accessibility and incredible burdens shouldered by school administrations and teachers with insufficient wages/compensation.
5) Repeal of the 2nd-Amendment and restrictions on the 1st-Amendment creating a society easily subjected to a tyrannical-socialist government.
6) Destruction of America’s municipalities through Politically Correct policies that are destroying the middle-class and creating epidemic levels of homelessness, addiction, disease, murder, poverty, hopelessness.
7) Destruction of the family unit through abortion; gender confusion forced upon America’s youth; the celebration of sexual perversion insisting the reality of over 100-genders…suicide, absent fathers, welfare dependent mothers, illiterate children.
8) Castration of America’s law enforcement community by Progressive-Socialist-Democrat municipal and state administrations exploiting the Ferguson Effect and demonizing our police, thwarting all forms of proactive policing, while our inner-cities suffer unconscionable crime rates, murder rates and the law-abiding citizenry cowers in fear. Mothers using bathtubs as beds for their children due to stray gunfire killing the innocent in urban gang wars and drug wars. An epidemic of addiction, overdose deaths, violent gang wars, trash, rats, human feces-urine polluting our streets, the resurgence of diseases from antiquity while pompous, arrogant, mindless, Democrat mayors, governors, live in their gated, posh, safe, communities.
Progressive Socialism is death to America and the Progressive-Socialist-Democrat is the epitome of a traitor to America and the icon of hypocrites.
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Those edicts are handed down to us as individuals, not us as a collective, and in the republic of the United States, it is not illegal to adhere to Gods edicts as individuals. It is of the utmost of importance of matters that the republic of the United States is not a legitimate kingdom in the eyes of God, and this is demonstrated by the fact that if we did indeed do as you proposed and disallowed atheists and homosexuals to be a part of the American government, it would still not be a legitimate kingdom in the eyes of God, because heaven is the ONLY true kingdom.
My point is also verified by "God's word" that allows us to be free to form our own forms of government and social order on earth, and those forms of authority will influence the shape of heaven itself. In Mathew 16:19, it says "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." This is a clear document of God's allowance of us to govern our selves.
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Anyone, regardless of race, gender, identity, religion, creed, or affiliation can be a leader.
Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
Through a long process of evolution this life developed into the human race.
Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .
All of that so we can argue about nothing.
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Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
Through a long process of evolution this life developed into the human race.
Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .
All of that so we can argue about nothing.
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30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”
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It seems like you were more passionate about your argument in the second carbon copy post you made, so that's the one I agreed with. You didn't really have your heart in it on the first one. And kudos to you for getting twice the points from smoothie agreeing with both your arguments.
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Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
Through a long process of evolution this life developed into the human race.
Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .
All of that so we can argue about nothing.
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You cant share the gospel with love if the goal of sharing it is to hate upon people that are different from you
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Ah, so it is your ‘lord’ that hates everyone else
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He scraps regulations that are there to protect lives …. unless they happen to be "viable lives" (which is only a way to gain votes from the gullible), he strips away the protections of our allies …. causing the deaths of hundreds, women and children included. He admires killers like Putin and MbS and Kim, and blesses their actions. He only goes to church for photo-ops and marriages, is an obvious racist … and YOU seem to accept him over common people who think THEY are getting the short straw. Socialism is an economic system. It can work well WITH capitalism, not alone. Atheists don't start wars, they don't brainwash children, they don't organize and try to run the world, they don't try to control countries or peoples thinking. They have a right to express their opinion, they have a right to believe that, if there is no proof or acceptable evidence of a superior being, they don't have to accept someone else's belief. LET GOD HANDLE IT! Believe as YOU wish and go on with your life. We'd like to go on with ours.
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