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There is nothing inherently wrong about rape, debate me
How does my denomination, non-denominational, matter in the debate topic of is rape inherently wrong? This seems like a spurious claim. Do you believe that someone's denomination determines the answer to the debate? Again, you are bombing the debate topic with an off topic agenda. Create your own debate topic and say what you want there.Joeseph said:@RickeyHoltsclaw
Incorrect again Rickey I know the bible as written and intended you have to lie about what it says and pretend the unsavoury verses regards slavery , rape , pillage mean something else entirely, you actually use cherry picked chapters from the bible to contradict the bible and cannot see how ridiculous that makes you.
It's most interesting to me that you and @just_sayin will never say what denominations you both are whyvare you both so ashamed to mention which Americanised verion of the cult you both follow?
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There is nothing inherently wrong about rape, debate me
Again, this seems off topic. Are you saying that the Bible led you to conclude that rape is good? Is that your argument? If not, this is an off topic bombing of yet another debate by you. If you wish to debate this topic, why not create your own debate about it instead of bombing others debates with off topic diatribes? just sayinJoeseph said:@MayCaesar ;
The power of indoctrination is incredible it leads to people believing the most bizzare things , I agree it's very confusing indeed from a modern perspective.
Christians have this view of biblical times like some beautiful fairy tale where good always triumphs and evil is defeated , they attempt to silence those who disagree by saying every negative act by God is actually not the case as angry Atheists who are somehow misinterpreting what God said and meant when he laid down slavery laws, commanded slaughter , etc etc . Very strange people they read one thing yet say it means something else when it casts god in a negative light. -
Is Atheism A Religion of Love and Peace?
@Barnardot ; Atheism is a religion whose god is the same god of Islam, Allah-Satan, and atheism is a religion of deceit, death of the mind, soul, body in Hell.
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There is nothing inherently wrong about rape, debate me
@RickeyHoltsclaw
ARGUMENT TOPIC: RICKEY DIDNT KNOW THE GOD HE WORSHIPS DEMANDS HIS FOLLOWERS RAPE , DESTROY AND PILLAGE BECAUSE OF HIS INSANE FITS OF JEALOUSY BECAUSE PEOPLE REFUSE TO WORSHIP HIM
It's getting embarrassing that I have to keep educating you on the contents of the the book you've never read , you're nearly as bible ignorant as just sayin are you guys related?1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we dest60royed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
2) murder , rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.
6) David’s Punishment – Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness” (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”
Once again God approves of forcible rape.
8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
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Christianity
I think God's invitation is more like this 'You will be judged for your own behavior. It won't go well for you if you plead your own case, so I'll offer you an alternative - my son will pay the price for your misconduct. In return you will need to admit that you are a sinner and that you acknowledge that it is only because of he has done that your debt is paid in full. The choice is yours."Factfinder said:@MayCaesar
"I have nothing but love for you, but if you do not reciprocate my love, I will inflict terrible pain on you!"
That's the biblical god to a tee. -
Christianity
May, if you live a perfect life, then you don't need God's grace or help. But the reality is that most of us are in need of a lot of grace. You claim God is manipulating you, but the choice is yours. You are mad that God will judge you. But He is the creator and can judge His creation if He wants. He doesn't owe you a thing. And you are free to do as you wish.MayCaesar said:This is called a "covert contract" in the terminology of the book I mentioned: "I have nothing but love for you, but if you do not reciprocate my love, I will inflict terrible pain on you!" My conversation with people doing that is short: "Go to hell, God". Man, this phrase is juicy: I will make frequent use of it. Patent it under my name! -
Christianity
Jesus is the true way and life:
Jesus loves you all. Jesus died on a cross as a sacrifice in living a perfect sinless life we cannot. Jesus died for me, and you as well. God loves us so much that his son had died on a cross so that we can be with him eternally.
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There is nothing inherently wrong about rape, debate me
Good summary. Even prisoners of war were not allowed to be raped. Sex always had to be in a marriage setting and could not be compelled.RickeyHoltsclaw said:@Joeseph ; Why not study and practice discernment as opposed to listening to your fellow demonic atheists who are headed to de-ath in He-ll as you?Deuteronomy 22:28-29 are the ones that deal with rape (verses 25–27). The law has already prescribed the death penalty for that crime. Why would verses 28–29 address rape again and, in so doing, change the penalty? Obviously, different crimes are in view.
2) Exodus 22:16 is a parallel law: “If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.” No force is involved, only seduction. It’s a case of consensual sex and requires the same penalty as prescribed in Deuteronomy 22: the man pays a fine and marries the girl he slept with.
3) In the wording of Deuteronomy 22:28, the penalty is enforced if “they are discovered.” The fact that both of them are “discovered” indicates the consensual nature of the sexual act. The condition that “they” (plural) are found out makes no sense in the case of rape. Thus, this law covers a consensual tryst. A man who seduces a young woman, sleeps with her, and then expects to avoid all responsibility is thwarted in his plan. God instructs the couple to get married and stay married.
4) There are two distinct Hebrew words used in the same passage. In Deuteronomy 22:25, the word chazaq is translated “rapes.” But in verse 28 is a completely different verb (taphas), translated “seizes” in the ESV and “has intercourse with” in the NLT. The different verbs suggest different behaviors.
Critics of the Bible also point to Numbers 31, in which Moses tells his fighting men that “the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves” (Numbers 31:18 NLT). Critics wrongly assume that the captive women were to be raped. Rape is never mentioned in the passage. The soldiers were commanded to purify themselves and their captives (verse 19). Rape would have violated this command (see Leviticus 15:16-18). The women who were taken captive are never referred to as sexual objects. Did the captive women eventually marry some of the Israelites? Yes, probably. Is there any indication that rape or sex slavery was forced upon the women? Absolutely not.
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There is nothing inherently wrong about rape, debate me
@just_sayin
No. I am saying rape is an act of violence, therefore it is wrong and immoral.
Good to know.
1) The word rape is not used, even though it was just in the prior verses, instead a more neutral word is used, the word for 'take'. You have based an argument on a bad translation. In fact, if you look at other translations you see the error. For example Deuteronomy 22:28-29 in NLT translation:
The word "rape" is used in some translations like the NIV.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
So cherry picking translations can not bring a satisfying conclusion about as neither one of us are qualified to make such determinations arbitrarily. The entire context must be considered and established.
Arguments based on bad translations are not good arguments.
2) If this were rape, then passages that proceeds it would apply See Deuteronomy 22:25-26, explains what happens in the case of rape:“But if the man meets the engaged woman out in the country, and he rapes her, then only the man must die. 26 Do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no crime worthy of death. She is as innocent as a murder victim.
3) The passage, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, itself suggests that the sex is consensual. The phrase 'If they are discovered' strongly suggests this, if it were truly rape, then the man could be killed, however, to be completely accurate, in the OT, any crime that has as the maximum penalty - the death penalty, could be given a lesser sentence or punishment, except for murder.
Not necessarily. Not all rapes are violent and not all victims cry out for help. The only prerequisite for establishing rape mentioned is if the maid should cry out or not; which we all know isn't true. Or is that your argument, that rape is determined only in one way, if the victim cried out?
Meanwhile going back even further in the chapter to establish a more solid contextual foundation we realize sexual behavior in general that includes rape is being discussed. "If they are discovered" can have more applications then the just the one you suggest. A rapist and victim can be discovered and the participants remain rapist and victim. The realization that emotions are running high when a victim finds herself in this kind of extreme situation can cause women to react differently. Women have been known to forgive their assailants and have even entered relationships with them. Given the point in time that we're talking about the victim in a field could sense the isolation of her circumstance and simply submit in an effort to avoid any potential violence as well. Like an instinctual survival response. Remember this is a time where women were often referenced with the same frame of mind as when mentioning cattle to the extent her parents would have to keep proof of her virginity...Deuteronomy 22:
13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[b] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.
20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.
So a rape in those days under your gods laws could hurt a women in many different ways. She in her situation may want to marry her rapist if for nothing else but to save herself from a life of despair and rejection. If that wasn't bad enough, add the possibility of single motherhood in such an unforgiving oppressive culture. It is in this context that the verses in question should be contemplated in. And not simply which translation best fits the narrative of choice.
I am not supporting rape, but supporting accurate biblical interpretation.
Commendable. However accurate biblical interpretation as I've just demonstrated appears to only condemn rape if the act violates the victims hymen and chooses not to marry her rapist. Well with one and one only exception, she cry out during her assault for help. But then if she does and isn't heard, then what? Also why speak of the female sex as "virgins" as that seems to be what the author is more concerned with; more so than the rape activity itself?
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Should Marinara Be Legal?
Marinara is indeed very different than marijuana. Some differences:JulesKorngold said:
It's MY debate. The topic is MARINARA. Comply or rot in hell.RickeyHoltsclaw said:@JulesKorngold ; No it's not...Marijuana is the topic...stop the stup-idity.
1) 1 in 6 of those under 18 who use marijuana are addicted to it. Marinara, while tasty has not been found addictive.
2) Marijuana can damage the functioning of the brain and permanently lower IQs. Marinara has not been found to permanently damage one's brain, maybe appetite.
3) Marijuana affects reaction time, perception, and bodily movement which could result in driving accidents. While marinara has caused occasional heart burn, it has not impaired people's ability to move or drive.
4) People who use marijuana are more likely to have relationship problems, worse educational outcomes, lower career achievement, and reduced life satisfaction. Marinara has not been shown to make a person's life worse - maybe they get fat from the pasta they eat with the marinara, but not from the marinara itself.
So there are lots of differences between the two. So enjoy your marinara.
