Why is the virgin birth of Messiah a necessity?

Grafix

@MayCaesar - Did God really make you as obtuse as you feign to be?  I don't think so.  I smell the smoke of Satan, who was anything but obtuse. Arrogant and ego-centric, but not obtuse.  No God would not disappear if your perfidy burnt the Bible, because of the plethora of evidence elsewhere, like in the clay tablets.

I reference the HARD evidence of Christ, because that same history is evidence of His D I V I N I T Y.  What part of that don't you understand?  His evident Divinity is the direct rebuttal to yours and Killjoy's heretical nonsense that The Christ could ever possibly be one and the same as Satan.  Only Satan himself would peddle such a thing.  No other would even think of it. 

Oh, right.  Now you flee to the resort of last retort - flat-out denial, flying in the face of historical facts, the evidence which I've just referenced.  So, let me get this straight.  According to you, Pilate didn't send a missive to Rome reporting his fear of unrest and consternation about possible insurrections over the discovery of the empty tomb?  Tacitus and Josephus didn't mention it in their historical records, either?  The soldiers weren't bribed and their testimony is just crap.  A crowd of 500 eye-witnesses to whom Jesus gave a sermon, after his resurrection, with all witnessing evidence of his wounds never happened?  Doubting Thomas didn't place his two fingers in the wound from the Centurion's spear in the side of Jesus? ... after which he then believed and said, "My Lord, My God" and FELL to his knees.  That never happened, although eye witnesses right there say it did?  That phrase, "doubting Thomas" came from that very incident and is 2,000 years old.  I guess there is just no winning with liars.  If they can't win they lie and if they can't hold the lie then they deny.  You really are a pitiful bunch.  

But Hey!  You weren't there, yet you know better than all of them and because you weren't there, it can't be considered accurate history, even though it is from first-hand, eye-witness accounts.  But Hey!  You own the rules of how we record our history, changing them whenever it suits your whim. No need for reasons.  No need for evidence in support of your denials.  Bugger all others and everyone else.  Let's just chuck the standards of record-keeping kept by scholars for centuries right out the window, because on this account, you don't like the history.  Right?   Perfidy abounds.  There is nothing more precious than the truth.  Truth as the greatest of all gifts which God gave to us, for in His Truth we find our salvation, but you trash that gift underfoot, like it was something to wipe on the front door mat. 

The Sumerian tablets are the original source that we have to date.  We cannot know what else may turn up, but I see God turning up the volume over the last four decades, archaeology proving the accuracy of the Biblical texts again and again and again - the discovery of Sodom and Gomorrah, the real Mount Sinai, the Rock of Horeb, the discovery of the Red Sea Crossing with bodies of soldiers, Pharaoh's army of chariots, military vehicles and weapons all discovered lying on its sea bed in hundreds of feet of water, but Hey!  The Exodus is just a myth.  Noah's Ark in the Mountains of Ararat, just as the Bible said it would be found, 6,300 feet above sea level.  How does a 515 foot sea-going vessel land in mountains way above sea-level?  A flood come to mind?  Anyone?  , . 

You have, I presume, read all about the clay tablets in my topic on them, given that you posted on that page.  Go back and read the plethora of links and links within links, if you are having difficulty with this history here.  If you can't be bothered, then you are not qualified to argue the subject.  Oh, yes. We know how little the heretics care about sacrilege, heresy, tradition, foundations, respect or value history.  They value nothing.  Islam exemplifies that attitude.  It destroyed the largest, most revered and most prolific of scholarship in the Library of Alexandria during its so-called "Golden Age", an age of death, destruction, slaughter, rape, paedophilia, slavery and bloody and brutal conquest.  So very "Golden", right?  Destroyed and razed to the ground every last vestige of the Hebraic and Christian record, wherever they could, but yet God's evidence just keeps piling up, out of the ground with every spade.  How Satan hates that.  If you can't win, then just destroy it.  I see the same mentality, right here on this page.  
.

DDAN15

I personally disagree, but it's to prove that you are a purity

MayCaesar

@Grafix

I am not questioning historical facts; I am questioning your interpretation of them. You keep insulting me, but you have not really tried to understand my position, have you? Regardless, history is not what the original question was about.

Killbot asked you about the experiment one can perform to make sure that god exists and that it is not impersonated by Satan. Suppose I do not know anything about history, but I have access to the most modern lab equipment. What can I do to deduce that god exists and is not impersonated by Satan? I am not interested in book records written by whoever for whatever purposes; I want to get my hands dirty myself. What can I do?

If the tablets are the original source to date, then how can you know that they have anything to do with truth? Perhaps the original source offers a very different narrative, which was perverted over the years.

You are still not considering the possibility that all the events you have described have been initiated by Satan. You appear extremely aggressive towards those who question your version of the truth; this might be a protection mechanism. Perhaps deep inside you realize that this might be true, and are scared of the implications of that. I can only guess based on your responses; you are not particularly forthcoming with responding to valid criticism and prefer to drown your opponents in walls of irrelevant text instead.

Grafix

@MayCaesar - You wrote:

I am not questioning historical facts; I am questioning your interpretation of them. You keep insulting me, but you have not really tried to understand my position, have you? Regardless, history is not what the original question was about.

There's your inherent error right there, in the very first and last sentence.  You very ignorantly and erroneously think  a discussion of the Judeo-Christian God's existence and His identity can be separated from history.  It cannot.  That's where you go so very wrong.  The entire belief system of the Abrahamic God is intricately woven into OUR  history, into the history of every  Western nation.  This is why your ignorance is such an abomination.  There is no Western nation on the face of this earth which does not owe it's history to Israel and its God, Yahweh.  Sit back and digest that slap in the face for a moment.  It's not a slap in the face to  believers, who are forever grateful to our Jewish allies, partners and very early ancestors, however, I have no doubt it is a slap for you, an atheist or Satanist - I'm not sure which - one or both. 

When speaking about the origins, identity and beginning of the Judeo-Christian God, it is impossible to not discuss the History of the Hebrews, the Patriarchs, the Davidic line, Mary, Joseph and finally Jesus.  Impossible not to.  It is imperative that we must.  So, if you raise a question concerning the identity of the Abrahamic God/Yahweh/Jesus, you must  address historical facts, the very facts which prove Jesus' divinity, the fact that Jesus lived, the fact that he walked the miles from Bethlehem to Nazareth in a sling upon his mother's back, the fact that he calmed the seas, fed thousands with a few loaves and fishes, that he healed the blind, the paralyzed, the deaf, lepers, the crippled, that he was crucified, that he got up and walked out of his tomb, empty to this day because  He   I S   A N   H I S T O R I C A L    figure, whose life story has been laid down in a Holy Book, but which you dismiss as not history.  There's your ignorance, right there, on full display and it is your ignorance of this very same history which is THE  problem here.

This same history PROVES that your proposition just cannot be even entertained, is inherently impossible, is totally implausible and subsequently, ludicrous for the very reason that this history speaks the opposite to your proposition in volumes, this very same history which the proposition demands must be dismissed in the first place, in order to even entertain it as even possible in the first place.  That's the point.  Why can't you "get" that?

P.S. I don't insult you personally.  I insult the group-think with which you align yourself, actions, conduct and ignorance.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Can you: "WALK ON WATER, GIVE A MAN HIS LEGS, HEAL THE SICK, GIVE A MAN HIS SIGHT, HEAL LEPROSY, CALM THE OCEANS, FEED 5,000 WITH A FEW LOAVES AND FISHES, RAISE THE DEAD, TURN WATER INTO WINE, MOVE A ONE TONNE STONE ALL BY YOUR LONESOME, WALK UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVE, TAKE OFF INTO THE CLOUDS IN A GLORY OF LIGHT AFTER YOU DIED."

If you can't do any of these things an no one can, then that means they probably didn't happen. It is accepted science, get used to it. 

MayCaesar

@Grafix

History refers to the past; we are asking you about the present. History allows us to understand what transpired in the past; it does not give any direct evidence of what transpires in the present. Knowing history does not answer the question we have been asking all this time: what experiment can one perform to conclude that god exists and is not impersonated by Satan?

Once again, it is not the history I dispute, but your interpretation of the history. I see no evidence for alleged miracles. You took a real historical person - Jesus of Nazareth - and prescribed a lot of magical properties to him, calling everyone who questions them ignorant.

What group-think? I am not the one following a major religion and repeating after its proponents; I have my own view on the world not affiliated with any religion/ideology.

It seems that your argument for impossibility of god's impersonation by Satan rests on emotional grounds. You have never explained how exactly it is impossible; you just dumped a bunch of facts/claims and said, "Is it not obvious?" No, it is not, sorry. If it was, you would be able to demonstrate it easily, and you are not.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - "Accepted" science?  Really?  Whose science might that be?  The science of Evolution? ... kept up by the "Establishment" scientists, paid under the table to keep it in school texts, despite the fact it was disproved nearly a decade ago by Dr. James Tour, the world's leading molecular scientist in nano technology and a chemistry scientist also.  That kind of science?  It's not worth a spit.  Just go and ask CERN.  They will tell you otherwise, that it can happen.  Besides, you seem to have forgotten these videos below, posted in my 2nd post on the first page of this topic.  Remember?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKyOaDh5USI  +  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIV1m4kEItE + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WyoenjZAZw + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA7BxSrhjw4 
.

Grafix

@MayCaesar - You wrote:

History refers to the past; we are asking you about the present. History allows us to understand what transpired in the past; it does not give any direct evidence of what transpires in the present. Knowing history does not answer the question we have been asking all this time: what experiment can one perform to conclude that god exists and is not impersonated by Satan?

I see?  So we are now not permitted to look to history to solve a problem?  What kind of academic scholarship follows that rule?  Yours?  I'm glad you are not writing the syllabi or in charge of education.  The Founding Fathers would not be permitted to be discussed in relation to the present?... NOR Einstein?  Newton?  Darwin?  Isn't Darwin's croc of Evolution still taught in schools as relevant  to the present? How long ago did he live? Still taught, even though it was disproved nearly a decade ago by Dr. James Tour, the world's leading molecular chemist and scientist in nano technology.  Dr. Tour represents PRESENT science, which you are championing.  Are you gonna telephone the Dept. of Education and demand they remove Darwin's teachings? But Hey!  I understand.  You love to make your own rules for the scholars.  

The reality is history rebuts your Satanic question and you can't accept that it does.  That's all you are really saying.  LOL!  Protecting your ignorance of the necessary history, by outlawing it in the discussion, because it proves that your proposition cannot even fly, is dishonest debating and cheating.

Belonging to a group-think is not identified as accepting historical facts and acknowledging their credence.  That's called going where the evidence leads you, no matter how wide-spread the acceptance by both  scholars and the public.  Belonging to a group-think means repeating like a mindless parrot what you are told, without thinking it through, without questioning the paradigm to find flaws in the narrative, an absence of thinking for yourself, instead just repeating it verbatim in spite of obvious flaws.  The two represent a very different mental culture.  You also wrote:

It seems that your argument for impossibility of god's impersonation by Satan rests on emotional grounds. You have never explained how exactly it is impossible; you just dumped a bunch of facts/claims and said, "Is it not obvious?" No, it is not, sorry. If it was, you would be able to demonstrate it easily, and you are not.

I did explain it, with evidence.  You just won't accept the evidence, nor will you explore the evidence further, too numerous to write up here, but which links I gave and referred you to in another post.  Groupthink again.

Let me ask you this.  If these people in the videos below, can do these things, (using powers obtained through Satanic worship), then why is it that Jesus or God could not do much greater things with much greater powers for the love of mankind?  Take a look ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKyOaDh5USI  +  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIV1m4kEItE + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WyoenjZAZw + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA7BxSrhjw4 

.

Dee

@Grafix

***** Let me ask you this.  If these people in the videos below, can do these things, (using powers obtained through Satanic worship), then why is it that Jesus or God could not do much greater things with much greater powers for the love of mankind?  Take a look ...


Ha, Ha card tricks are the results of  “satanic  powers “ you need to get out a bit more 

You never read the comments on the videos they’re aimed at bra-n  dead idio-s  like you 

MayCaesar

@Grafix

That is not what I was saying. We are always permitted to look at history for reference, but history cannot be the only source for studying an inherent property of our world. If you are trying to detect something that is supposed to exist right now, then, while history may assist you in coming up with the right method to do so, the detection still has to be done in the present time.
If, hypothetically, Darwin's words were the only evidence behind the Evolution theory, then you would be right to discard this theory until further evidence is found. Luckily for science, Darwin's words are only a very tiny piece in the puzzle, and Darwin even turned out to be wrong on many accounts.

You have said multiple times that history rebuts my Satanic question, but you have never explained why and how.

I do go where the evidence leads me, especially since I am a professional scientist. The evidence has not led me anywhere near your professed world view, and I do not think my method is at fault here. It could be, but you have not said anything so far that would make me question it.

The people on the videos do sleight of hand tricks; that is the whole purpose of those stunts, to show how far one can go in using people's flawed perceptions to make them assume the impossible. If anything, these videos undermine your position, rather than supporting it.
"Walking on water", for example, is a pretty common trick, having many different variations. There are many videos on Youtube explaining some of them, and you would have already found them if you were after the truth.

Grafix

@Dee - HA.  HA. HA.  Who is too scared to watch the videos, because they just might support my argument?  LOL!  More dishonest debating, not worth a cracker.  Go away Dee.  Your vacuous tosh is wasted space.

Grafix

@MayCaesar - You wrote:

...  but history cannot be the only source for studying an inherent property of our world. If you are trying to detect something that is supposed to exist right now, then, while history may assist you in coming up with the right method to do so, the detection still has to be done in the present time.

Sure, but the source itself, Christ's divinity and proof of it, in and of itself completely dismisses your proposition.  Archaeology does too - the clay tablets, testimonial evidence of the history of Christ from first hand witnesses.  You can't get a better witness than Adam of God's divinity.  Add to that Pilate's, Tacitus' and Josephus Flavius' documented fact of Christ's empty tomb and the soldier's testimony, recorded also by Pilate, of Christ's divinity.  They saw Christ standing outside his own tomb and testified that they did not roll back the one tonne stone.  Pilate even refers to the reason for the Sanhedrin's complaints against Christ - his "miracles".  Pilate is acknowledging Christ's "miracles".  Pilate's wife was a Christian.  You see, you won't do the research and thus your ignorance of the history is persistently your stumbling block.

You have said multiple times that history rebuts my Satanic question, but you have never explained why and how.

I just did AGAIN, for about the fourth time.  Take it or leave it.  I don't mind that.  What I mind is the lying about what I have and have not proved.

I do go where the evidence leads me, especially since I am a professional scientist. The evidence has not led me anywhere near your professed world view, and I do not think my method is at fault here. It could be, but you have not said anything so far that would make me question it.

If this is the standard of scientific enquiry, then God help science.

The people on the videos do sleight of hand tricks; that is the whole purpose of those stunts, to show how far one can go in using people's flawed perceptions to make them assume the impossible. If anything, these videos undermine your position, rather than supporting it.

Again, Shin the magician, was very emphatic that he does not use sleight of hand and that his "magic" is not "tricks", but that he uses the dark arts, black magic or black arts.  He exhorts us to "pay attention" to that.  The things we are observing in these videos are way beyond "tricks" and sleights of hand and you know they are.  They are way too complex for that. 

How do you explain the half torso pushing the trolley?  The polaroid photo?  The girl magician double?  Her obvious "portal transportation" from the stage to beside the panelists in a split second?  You should know all about that if you work at CERN.  Remember these are not sleights projected by video editing either.  These shows all have live audiences.  I could go on and on through each of the acts, but still you will claim they are "sleights of hand".  Why?  Because your arguments are dishonest.  Why?  Because you have an "Agenda" which I am exposing.  Your job is to deny that Agenda and cover it up, pretending no Agenda exists.  We know it does, though.  It is a mission assigned to dismantle Christianity and destroy faith in God.

Dee

@Grafix

**** - HA.  HA. HA.  Who is too scared to watch the videos, because they just might support my argument? 

Right , I’m too scared to watch card tricks which Shim sells to the public .....You didn’t read the comments directed to your type at the end of the video 

**** LOL!  More dishonest debating, not worth a cracker.  Go away Dee.  Your vacuous tosh is wasted space.

Ha , Ha , card tricks are the result of “satanic powers” .......ooooookay 

Dee

@Grafix

**** - HA.  HA. HA.  Who is too scared to watch the videos, because they just might support my argument? 

Right , I’m too scared to watch card tricks which Shim sells to the public .....You didn’t read the comments directed to your type at the end of the video 

**** LOL!  More dishonest debating, not worth a cracker.  Go away Dee.  Your vacuous tosh is wasted space.

Ha , Ha , card tricks are the result of “satanic powers” .......ooooookay 

Dee

@Grafix

**** - HA.  HA. HA.  Who is too scared to watch the videos, because they just might support my argument? 

Right , I’m too scared to watch card tricks which Shim sells to the public .....You didn’t read the comments directed to your type at the end of the video 

**** LOL!  More dishonest debating, not worth a cracker.  Go away Dee.  Your vacuous tosh is wasted space.

Ha , Ha , card tricks are the result of “satanic powers” .......ooooookay 

Dee

@Grafix

Your idiocy is beyond belief ...... Black art is an old form of magic that's rarely used to-day in its original form. The result black art provides is great, it is as near to trick photography as you will get with no camera! A wizard involving black art will dim the lights and find a phase.

He is not talking about Satanism but a technique used in the Art of magic .....

MayCaesar

@Grafix

First, archaeological evidence does not support your particular interpretation of these historical entities. And second, even if it did, it would still not address the practical question me and @Happy_Killbot asked.

We do not need god to help science; we have scientific method and basic logic. You cannot just throw a bunch of facts and say, "This obviously shows that..." This is not how scientific proof works, but you would not know it, would you?

Are you serious? These magicians themselves regularly explain their tricks. It is one of the highest points in any magician's career: to explain a trick they have been doing for year to the audience, so people could say, "A-ha, so that is how it is done!"
If there was genuine magic involved, then they would not have to show these tricks in such elaborate settings. They could just go in a room full of cameras at hundreds different angles, perform their art and leave the scientific community stunned. Yet it never happens, and they can only do tricks in a properly set-up environment. That is what tricks are: they rely on your inability to pay attention to everything.

I used to perform this trick, where I would show a person a coin and put it in my pocket, only for it to end up in their pocket. There was a method to it, but, I guess, I was overthinking it, and in reality I was performing magic...

Grafix

@Dee - I know you believe "Al" [God in Arabic] Debra is real, but double-posting multiple comments, which could be confined to just ONE comment, the first half of each always identical, is not gonna win you Al Debra Brownie Points. It merely demonstrates a lowbrow level of intellect.

Dee

@Grafix

@Dee - I know you believe "Al" [God in Arabic] Debra is real, but double-posting multiple comments, which could be confined to just ONE comment, the first half of each always identical, is not gonna win you Al Debra Brownie Points. It merely demonstrates a lowbrow level of intellect.


Actually again you've got that the wrong way around regarding intellect as usual , you believe in a six thousand year old Earth , a virgin birth a talking snake, a water walking carpenter called Jesus and you think card tricks are the work of Satan and you talk about "intellect " bwahahahahahaha

Grafix

@MayCaesar - 

First, archaeological evidence does not support your particular interpretation of these historical entities. And second, even if it did, it would still not address the practical question me and @Happy_Killbot asked.

A scientist wrote this?  You a scientist?  That's evidence of your opposing argument?  You "follow" the evidence?  Where is it?  I can't see any, only a flat-out, bald-faced denial.  That's a scientific approach to disprove evidence? This is your "scientific method"? Really?  As I said, if this is the standard of science we have in the paid-under-the-table "establishment" science, then God help science.

We do not need god to help science; we have scientific method and basic logic. You cannot just throw a bunch of facts and say, "This obviously shows that..." This is not how scientific proof works, but you would not know it, would you?

We do not need frauds in the scientific discipline of our hallowed halls of academia, like the above, like the "establishment" scientists still pushing the croc of Evolution in schools today, long after it was disproved a decade ago.

Are you serious? These magicians themselves regularly explain their tricks. It is one of the highest points in any magician's career: to explain a trick they have been doing for year to the audience, so people could say, "A-ha, so that is how it is done!"

Still clinging to the obvious lie.  You know it is.  No response to Shin's exhortation for us to "follow" his black magic, dark arts, black art acts?  Go tell him you think they are mere "tricks" and "sleights of hand".  He will laugh you off his stage or out of his audience and deservedly so.

If there was genuine magic involved, then they would not have to show these tricks in such elaborate settings. They could just go in a room full of cameras at hundreds different angles, perform their art and leave the scientific community stunned. Yet it never happens, and they can only do tricks in a properly set-up environment. That is what tricks are: they rely on your inability to pay attention to everything.

Where is Shin's elaborate setting?  Where is Dynamo's elaborate setting?  They do their acts on the street, impromptu, among passer's by, no props, no assistant, no curtains, no tables, zero.  Just the footpath and the passing parade.  You make me laugh.  Your responses are risible.

I used to perform this trick, where I would show a person a coin and put it in my pocket, only for it to end up in their pocket. There was a method to it, but, I guess, I was overthinking it, and in reality I was performing magic...

That seems to be the limitation of your understanding, a trick performed by every amateur magician since the beginning of time using a well-known sleight of hand..  Shin wears short sleeves, no props.  Dynamo also no props.  Both working in public on the street, anywhere.  What prop did the girl magician use for her portal transportation off the stage to stand behind the panelists?  Cameras rolling - one second she's on the stage, the next she's 30 metres away behind the panelists.  You refuse to address the evidence every time, just as you refuse to address the evidence of Christ's divinity.  You argue all around it, every which way, diving off down rabbit holes to create diversions, but never referencing a single piece of the evidence, item by item.  I take your comments and pull them apart.  Why don't you pull apart each of the historical facts which testify to Jesus' divinity?  Because you can't.  It's undeniable.

Happy_Killbot

You know, the first thing I said in this thread was "Where did the Y chromosome come from" I don't think anyone answered that question, or even attempted to.

Or can answer it anyways...

(LOL! Mary was a hamster and Jesus smelt of illegitimacy)

Grafix

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix I don't understand what this picture is supposed to add to the conversation.

Are you trying to suggest that because someone can dislocate their fingers, that this somehow proves that Jesus wasn't female, and/or "the virgin Mary" was anything but?

Grafix

I wasn't responding to your post.  Watch the videos.  You don't understand because your mind is closed.  Watch the videos.

MayCaesar

@Grafix

That is the problem: there is no evidence you have presented that supports your claims in any tangible way. Yes, as a scientist, I follow evidence, and when the evidence is not presented, or when the presented evidence does not support the made claim, then I do not accept the claim. Do you operate differently?

I was not aware that Evolution had been disproved. You might know more if you work in a close field. What field are you in again?

I do not understand your objections... Do you seriously believe that "Shin" and whoever else you mentioned perform actual magic? How old are you, if I might ask?

I do not think, at this point, that you know what "evidence" is. Evidence is not just something you have seen; evidence is something that has been investigated in all proper ways, with all errors and uncertainties accounted for. If you show me footage of some trick from multiple angles, including what happens behind the close doors, what happens inside the person's closed fists, etc., that shows the moment the "teleportation" takes place, as it complete disappearance of the person in one spot and reapperarance in a different spot - then I will accept that piece of evidence. Otherwise, you seem to be new to this whole thing, if you literally take the magicians' tricks for what your senses immediately tell you.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - Good point.  Let me tell you of an extraordinary, but real event.

A man took several samples of blood from several different locations to a reputable scientific pathology testing laboratory.  The scientists ran the tests and found the blood-type was AB positive for each of the samples.  The supplier of the samples then asked what was the chromosome count.  They said they cannot obtain a chromosome count from dead blood.   The supplier asked them was there any way to reconstitute the blood.  They said that's only possible with blood that is borderline, by using a saline solution.  The supplier asked them to do that.  They said the blood was too old for that to work, that samples had to be at least borderline between dead and alive.  Nevertheless, the supplier gently pressed them to do it anyway.

They saw no point in doing this, but as it was the wish of the client and immaterial to them, the technicians acquiesced and put each sample in a separate mix of saline solution for 48 hours with each placed inside an electric gadget which gently swirled the mix throughout the duration of those hours.  The supplier of the samples had asked them to contact him before they ran any tests, so that he could be present as they were doing them.  

They contacted him two days later and the woman doing the testing, looked into the microscope, stared silently aghast and then began to cry.  She did not even know why she was crying, except that she was extremely moved.  The dead blood was no longer dead.  It was now alive.  She called over a couple of other technicians, who had helped prepare the solution for the reconstitution process some 48 hours earlier.  Like her, they couldn't believe what they were seeing, either. They took the readings of each of the samples and all showed the same characteristic - they too were now alive.  They all also gave an identical reading, showing but one Y sex Chromosome with only 23 others - that is a total of 24 all up.   Most people have 46 chromosomes in total with 22 identical pairs of autosomes plus two sex chromosomes, i.e. women have two XX sex chromosomes and men have an X plus a Y sex chromosome.

plus

 The technicians turned to the provider of the samples and asked, whose blood is this?  The man responded, "The blood of your Messiah."  The technicians all agree the experience has changed their lives.

Christ's dried blood was professionally extracted and tested with samples taken from the Shroud of Turin, from Veronica's veil and from the Grotto of Jeremiah.  The mainstream media has suppressed the information.  Why?.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Your obviously made up story doesn't answer the question, where did the Y chromosome come from?

So the mother has XX and the father has XY so the mother always donates an X and the father will donate either an X or a Y.

If Jesus was of virgin birth, then He could only have 1 set of chromosomes, and they would have to be XX because their was no Y donor. So where did the Y chromosome come from?

Grafix

If you think Jesus was merely human, then you would be right.

RickeyD

@Happy_Killbot ; The "y" chromosome comes from God who created the first "y" chromosome...why is that so difficult; after all, Jesus was fully man and fully God?

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD Ok, so then "the virgin Mary" had sex with god?

RickeyD

@Happy_Killbot ; Was the first Adam (Jesus is the second-Adam) created by sex? Was Eve created by sex?

Grafix

l@Happy_Killbot

WOW! Killjoy.  You are halfway there, but not quite.  It happened like this:

Gospel According to St Luke
Chapter 1:

[26] And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, [27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. [28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

[31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. [33] And of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? [35] And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD Adam and eve were not real.

and neither was Jesus's Y chromosome, unless there is a much simpler explanation...

RickeyD

@Happy_Killbot ; Prove Adam and Eve were "not real" by providing evidence for the origin of the human genome.

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD You are shifting the burden of proof here, it is on you to provide that evidence that they did exist, we have been over this before.

Regardless, here is the evidence:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2004/08/23/adam-and-his-eves/
https://www.livescience.com/38613-genetic-adam-and-eve-uncovered.html

Y chromosome "Adam" and Mitochondrial "Eve" lived thousands  of years apart, so the biblical account is wrong.

Then there are Neanderthals. We have some of their DNA in our genome. How is it possible when the bible doesn't have them in it?

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You think there is a "simpler" explanation?  LOL!

It is wondrous to behold how dogged and stubborn resistance can still prevail in the face of undeniable evidence, evidence that will be shunned, ridiculed, scorned and derided until the end of time.  How do we know this?  Because it is foretold that it will be and like everything else, even in the same way that Christ's conception and birth was foretold nearly 1,000 years before He was born, it was rejected.  Even as His crucifixion was foretold nearly as many years prior, also rejected.  Even as His resurrection was foretold nearly as many hundreds of years prior, so too was it rejected. 

For how long can you keep on rejecting so many truths foretold hundreds of years in advance and which have all since come to pass?  Show me a prophecy in the Biblical text, except that which is yet to come shown to us in Revelation, which has not been fulfilled?  Show me just one and only then shall you convince me that Jesus is not the Lord our God.  Just one, with the exception of those still to be fulfilled in the future as laid down in Revelation.  Just one.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix So, where exactly do you think babies come from?

MayCaesar

@Grafix

Your problem is that the evidence you are presenting is not actually evidence, but your biased interpretation of loose pieces of data. Real evidence helps us build modern computers and cars, while your "evidence" seems to have zero practical use and comes down to you talking about fairy tales all the time.

I will ask again: with the modern equipment, what experiment can I perform to establish existence of god and that he is not impersonated by Satan? It is a very simple question, and if you are an expert who knows what he is talking about, you should be able to answer it with a few definitive sentences.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix You know, if someone actually discovered blood like what you described in your story, it would not be suppressed but rather every effort would be made to clone it and then distribute it. After all, immortal blood has major military advantages as well as civilian uses. It requires no expensive storage, nor does it degrade over time. Such a discovery would be celebrated in science, and made a staple of health. Blood donations would not be necessary, as everything needed could be derived from a single sample.

There is scarcely a technology developed with military purpose that is not pursued.

RickeyD

@Happy_Killbot ; No...you "shifted the burden," atheist...not me. You deny the Scriptures and you call the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, a so then, use your best Darwinian explanation and counter the Holy Spirit's explanation of creation with the "truth" of evolution.

RickeyD

@MayCaesar ; The Truth is given you in God's words...but you don't believe because you exist in a box of naturalism and your mind is blinded and your spirit is dead to the things of God...you can't think outside the box you and mankind have entrapped you in...it matters not what is presented, you won't believe because your mind will not permit belief....you have surrendered all that you are to darkness and hopelessness and death in sin and Hell.

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD I already have, read the links. It is undeniable, Adam and Eve did not exist as the bible is written, the bible is therefore literally false.

The book of Genesis is supposed to be read metaphorically. None of it actually happened, the way nothing in any comic book actually happened.

I am sorry, but fundamentalism is simply false.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - 

For one who asks profound and intelligent questions, sadly for all the wrong reasons though, it flummoxes me you do not put your intellect to better use, Killjoy.  You asked:

So, where exactly do you think babies come from?

That too is foretold in Genesis and although explained by science, not quite ALL of it has been explained by science.

Obviously, the impregnation of the female egg, (produced by the mother's ovaries) with the male spermatozoa begets offspring in every mammal, including humans. .  The egg, after it is fertilized travels back up the Fallopian tube into the uterus where the cell attaches itself to the wall of the uterus and begins the life of the next generation, which the parents started by a sexual union.  Elementary, right?

But who can explain how the egg knows when to travel back UP the Fallopian tube?  Who can explain how the egg knows the difference between when it is fertilized and when it is not?  When it is not fertilized it just dissolves after a given time.  When it is fertilized it travels in the OPPOSITE direction of all other eggs, going back UP the Fallopian tube..  How does it know to do this, to travel backwards, to go into the uterus, to attache to the uterus wall?  An egg has no brain, no intellect, no knowledge.

Ah!  Maybe knowledge is the key, after all?  What is DNA?  It is knowledge, aka information.  The egg's DNA has suddenly altered.  The DNA of the father of the child is now firmly embedded into the egg with the mother's DNA.  DNA is housed in the protein chains which all forms of life are built upon.  Getting closer to the answer?  So as these protein chains are in the cells of the female egg and similarly are also in the cells of the sperm and as the protein chains house DNA, then is it possible that this new DNA triggers the egg to change direction and go back up the Fallopian tube and travel into the uterus?  Could be?  ... given that DNA is information.

So where does DNA come from?  It is not made up of any "matter" like cells are in the enzymes and acids which are the building blocks of the protein chains and they in turn the building blocks of all life forms.  In other words, it cannot be reproduced by nature, only inherited in a fetilized egg.  Nature can't COPY it and multiply it, in the way it does everything else in the reproduction cycle with cells merely multiplying and growing, because it is not matter. 

DNA HAS NO CELLS.  It is information.  Information has no cells.  Maybe, just maybe this DNA comes from God.  It rocks the socks off me.  Does it rock the socks of you @Happy_Killbot - and @MayCaesar -  and @DDAN15  ?
.

RickeyD

@Grafix @Happy_Killbot ; 

22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.  Matthew 12:22-28

RickeyD

@Happy_Killbot ; If you reject the Scriptures, you have no hope. Bye.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Yes, DNA is information, but it has to come from other DNA- so where did the DNA that formed Jesus's Y Chromosome come from?

if you just say "God just made it so" that doesn't solve anything, because we don't just see entire chromosomes forming from nothing, they form by copying DNA. So where did this information come from?

MayCaesar

@Grafix

"DNA has no cells, hence DNA has been made by god" is supposed to impress me? There are so many things wrong with this logic that I do not know where to even start picking it apart. "I ate an apple, hence 2+2=5" is about as logically sound a statement as this.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot and  @MayCaesar

I just love this so much, I had to frame it.  It's beautiful May.  Couldn't you just try, even just a teenzy weenzy wee bit?  Otherwise it really does have to be branded as a gigantuan 

COP-OUT

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD If you reject the teachings of Islam, you have no hope.

It's just as valid a statement! The only reason you are a Christian fundamentalist and not a Muslim fundamentalist is because of where you live.

If you had accepted Muhammad into your heart and soul, there would be no difference except the book you use and the specific beliefs.

Grafix

@RickeyD - You quoted -

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?

It has to be the greatest line, the greatest observation, the greatest common sense and logic ever spoken, but how many understand that we are witnessing Satan driving out Satan and what it actually means?  Amazing.

Great work.