Why is the virgin birth of Messiah a necessity?

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Every time I hear stories of people who have left religion for good, one of the things the always say is how religion made them talk and think like an .

If MayCaesar pointing out your flawed reasoning, or rather the complete lack of reasoning is a "cop out" then there really is nothing that can make you change your mind is there?

No matter what, everyone else is wrong until proven wrong, and you consider yourself right until proven right. So when a mortal blow is made to your worldview, you shrug it off and deny that it happened. That is why people are leaving religion in droves, because they would rather not associate with people who can't think critically.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - 

Once again Killjoy, you are using your brain matter, but somehow you always stop short.  Why?  You left out the tail-end of the story with this remark ...

Yes, DNA is information, but it has to come from other DNA- so where did the DNA that formed Jesus's Y Chromosome come from?
if you just say "God just made it so" that doesn't solve anything, because we don't just see entire chromosomes forming from nothing, they form by copying DNA. So where did this information come from?

I don't disagree with you at all.  You are absolutely correct, except you don't take it to the full extension, which would then still solve nothing, only raise another question.  Going back to the impregnated egg after a sexual union, the now fertilized egg has Mummy and Daddy's DNA imprint.  Right?  That DNA is passed on to ALL of their children for soever many they may choose to create.  Right?

Question:  If DNA has no cellular matter, which we know it does not, and can only be inherited, which we know it is, then how is it that all of the children imprinted with the DNA of the same two parents are not all identical?  It means that there is ADDITIONAL DNA added, otherwise all of the children in the same family with the same parents would all look the same, but they don't do they?  So where does that ADDITIONAL DNA come from?  It is not inherited because in each case it is DIFFERENT from the DNA of every other sibling.  This is precisely what makes us individuals and unique.  The hand of God, again?

If God is giving us our uniqueness through giving us our unique DNA, why could he not give Mary's son His Y Chromosome?

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot ; - OK, SO you think that May has successfully rebutted my post on DNA?  Where did she rebut it, though?  I can's see any rebuttal.  You are claiming this is a rebuttal concerning my explanation of DNA ...



Please explain to me, what part of that represents a rebuttal and maybe add your own rebuttal to my DNA explanation above concerning God's Y chromosome given to Jesus.

MayCaesar

@Grafix

Even if we assume that the DNA was created by some intelligent being - which there is zero evidence of - even then there is infinity of possibilities, a monotheistic god being only one of them. Here are just a few other similarly probable scenarios:

- DNA was created by aliens.
- DNA was created by multiple gods in collaboration.
- DNA was created by dinosaurs and stored in a cave, until it was accidentally undigged by apes and released.
- DNA was created by the beings running the computer simulation we are living in.
- DNA was created by invisible pink unicorns that have been inflltrated by the agents of the Great Potato Hypermonster, which, in turn, was created by the Supreme Blue Toad living in the dark space somewhere in the Phoenix Cluster and running a totalitarian empire of Cuteligators there.

The only reason you jump to your version of the Christian monotheistic god is because that is what you have been led to believe by your religion. Any scientist, or a person taking scientific method seriously, knows that no conclusion should be made in the lack of further evidence.

I will ask for the last time: what experiment can I do with modern equipment to establish that god exists and that he is not impersonated by Satan?

Remember several pages back my comment about the resemblance of this discussion to the one I used to have with people believing in ghosts? Every single type of behavior I described there came true later on in this discussion. I guess I am the prophet and the god! I knew it! Jesus Maycaesar has a ring to it.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix No, remember how there are two sets of Chromosomes? Well any two combinations of those are possible, that is why not all children from the same parents are identical.

For example, suppose the mother presents X1 chromosome and the father X1 chromosome, they will have a daughter with X1, X1. But they could also have (X1, Y1), (X2, Y1), (X2, X1) there are four possibilities from just these two chromosomes, and further more the DNA is mixed during meiosis to provide even more variety.

It is impossible for the mother to provide different eggs, every one will have unique DNA. Every egg she will produce is already different from the moment they form. The father can reproduce the same sperm cells with identical DNA. This isn't adding any new DNA that wasn't already there.

You should have learned about this in high school, it is a disgrace to our education system that you do not know and understand.
https://www.yourgenome.org/facts/what-is-meiosis

However, mutations can occur in the DNA which does change it, effectively adding information to the DNA. These can be the result of radiation or occasionally because of random events. These mutations are the driver of evolution, when DNA changes and the organism has an advantage by sheer luck, then it has a better survival chance and so passes on its genes more readily.

The Y chromosome is unique however, and it is incredibly improbable that it could have mutated into existence from another chromosome into a fully formed and viable egg. It is very probable, the "the virgin Mary" was sleeping around.

You really need to do your homework before you make claims that I could have thoroughly rebuked before I even got out of grade school.

Grafix

@MayCaesar - WOW!  May, you are shining through there with some truth. Great to see. I cannot deny and fully understand the rationale of your following remark ....

The only reason you jump to your version of the Christian monotheistic god is because that is what you have been led to believe by your religion. Any scientist, or a person taking scientific method seriously, knows that no conclusion should be made in the lack of further evidence.

Agreed.  I could now launch into a long dissertation on the depth, breadth, exhausting and diligent discovery of life, God's inextricable hand in it, the evidence of that, etc. etc. but I shall refrain, for the reason that it would take a post longer than any in here are likely to read and it will not serve as a direct answer to your question, although it nevertheless is the full answer.  Instead, let's limit the discussion to only looking at your possible explanations for the entry of NEW  DNA via the act of copulation.  These are the ones you gave:

- DNA was created by aliens.
- DNA was created by multiple gods in collaboration.
- DNA was created by dinosaurs and stored in a cave, until it was accidentally undigged by apes and released.
- DNA was created by the beings running the computer simulation we are living in.
- DNA was created by invisible pink unicorns that have been inflltrated by the agents of the Great Potato Hypermonster, which, in turn, was created by the Supreme Blue Toad living in the dark space somewhere in the Phoenix Cluster and running a totalitarian empire of Cuteligators there.

Using ridicule as your agent can be fun and some made me laugh out loud.They are still useful to the discussion, so here we go ... 

• Which parent slept with an alien?  
• Multiple Gods might be right, but no pagan God remotely proved his existence in the same way that Christ has, so I'll opt for the Abrahamic God.  
• Which parent slept with a dinosaur? 
•  Which parent slept with an ape?  
• Which parent slept with a PC? 
•  Which parent slept with an invisible pink unicorn, the Great Potato, or the Superme Blue Toad or a Cuteligator?

You see it yet?  See what you may ask?  That DNA can only enter the egg by impregnation.  So did our parents engage in "threesomes" with one of your creatures?  OR to put it another way with a third human?  But even then, the third human can't impregnate the same  egg.  That only happens in the rarest circumstance when we see identical twins, the egg impregnated with two sperm by the same  father and not from an additional source and only possible because both sperm entered it at EXACTLY THE SAME SPLIT SECOND.. 

 So again, where does this ADDITIONAL  DNA come from at the time of impregnation, which is when it must occur?  Your explanation requires a threesome between the sheets, but in any event still does not make the addition of a differently sourced DNA to the same egg possible, because an egg can only be impregnated once, except in the rare exception of identical twins.

I thought you said you were a scientist.

MayCaesar

@Grafix

Obviously I was talking about the initial introduction of DNA into the equation, which did not have to be a result of conception by regular means. You suggested that the DNA was created, and I proposed a few possible scenarios of how exactly that may have happened.

I am a scientist indeed, which is why I can counter your walls of text with a few lines and completely demolish your arguments. Scientists learn to look for the essence of each issue and discard all the fluff.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - OK.  Good answer, although I don't think you meant to type this the way you did, because it is a contradiction in terms. 

It is impossible for the mother to provide different eggs, every one will have unique DNA. Every egg she will produce is already different from the moment they form.

 I confess I frequently only ever scraped through biology and genetics, so I would have to research some of your points to be certain you are correct, particularly in claiming the mother does not produce two eggs the same and that this accounts for why no two siblings look alike, but then you state with admirable honesty that it does not change the DNA of the egg, which puzzles me greatly, because I do know for certain that our DNA is the blueprint of each and every one of us, meaning it defines the colour of our hair, even the character of its fibre, whether fine, coarse, thick or thin, wavy or straight, etc.  Same with every detail of every cell in our body from skin, eyes, teeth to our big toe nail, so I wonder then if the "different egg" scenario you state can be factual in influencing appearance, or whether I've misread your meaning because of your obviously inadvertent typo?

Nevertheless, the pivotal fact remains that not any two of us have exactly the same DNA, but simply what are called common "markers" which every generation from the beginning of time never loses, the reason they know today that the Arabs and the Hebrews came from the same ancestry, for example.  So although our chromosome combination may differ slightly and that may even account for the difference in our appearance, the fact remains that we can only inherit DNA, our bodies cannot "make" it anew or "develop" it in the same way material cellular functions can.  Therefore the original question remains.  From whence do we get our individual DNA?

Dee

@Grafix

You should have started that story with “Once upon a time in a far away land .......obviously as usual all stated with zero evidence 

Dee

@Grafix

**** I wasn't responding to your post.  Watch the videos.  You don't understand because your mind is closed.  Watch the videos

It’s amusing to witness that @Happy_Killbot  @MayCaesar and I are all uneducated because we do not accept that card and coin tricks are the work of Satan , you really need to do some research maybe you want to bring back the inquisition and burn Shin Lim and dynamo at the stake? 

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/live-lectures/shin-lim-live-lecture/

You can pay to watch him lecture on his techniques though an online shop that sells magic tricks , supplies and books to magicians just like one can pay to watch dynamo ....... What age are you? You sound like a 9-10 year old and I don’t mean any disrespect to that group when I say this 

Dee

@Grafix

Grafix

Given the laboratory test results which I printed above of Jesus' blood type this is also interesting information.  In the 8th century, a Basilian priest in Lanciano, Italy who was doubting the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist was offering Mass when the Eucharist miraculously turned into natural flesh and blood. You can still see the non-decomposing flesh and blood in the Church of San Francesco today.

In the 1970s and ’80s, some of the flesh and blood from this miracle were studied by scientists, who, among other things, found the blood was AB.  Interesting, right?

In the 13th century (500 years after the miracle of Lanciano), another priest who was doubting the truth of the real presence also experienced a Eucharistic miracle: the host started bleeding all over his corporal (a cloth used in the liturgy). You can still see the cloth on display in the Cathedral of Orvieto.

Scientific testing of this cloth in the mid-’90s showed that the blood was AB as well. The AB blood type has also apparently been found on the Shroud of Turin. There are even reports that blood taken from some weeping statues of Mary have the AB blood type.

Now, it’s possible that these miracles and relics are not authentic and the fact they have AB blood type is just a coincidence. But the odds are strongly against it: the percentage of the population that has AB blood type is in the single digits. And remember, blood types were only discovered in the early 20th century, long after most of these miracles happened and these relics surfaced – meaning that anyone trying to forge them would not have even known about blood type as something to “get right.”

Which makes it much more likely that these miracles and relics, separated by centuries and long before the Scientific Revolution, are in fact authentic.

Grafix

@Dee ; LOL!  You actually made me laugh, Dee, with the ", Joe.  You're not my real Dad."  LOL.

The Bible acknowledges that Joe, wasn't, btw.

Dee

@Grafix

***** The Bible acknowledges that Joe, isn't, btw.

I know , I wonder how Joe took the news?

Grafix

@MayCaesar - You wrote:

Obviously I was talking about the initial introduction of DNA into the equation, which did not have to be a result of conception by regular means. You suggested that the DNA was created, and I proposed a few possible scenarios of how exactly that may have happened.

You are really good at twisting pears into pretzels.  I'll give you that much, but as for "countering my walls of text with a few lines", you counter nothing.  You duck, dive, weave and wobble, just like you are in your response above.  Your self-applauded brevity does you no service.  Instead you do not read the text accurately and fail to then pull it apart point by point in a methodical manner.  You don't even attempt to in your supposed fabled "counters", just like you haven't attempted to in your last two posts on DNA above.  Where's the rebuttal to my arguments?  Still waiting. 

Instead, we get an excuse for your answer, necessary because you failed to interpret the text accurately.  I was clearly speaking about inheritance of DNA, which necessarily means at the point of reproduction.  How anyone could have missed that, is gobsmacking.  

Your pretence at being a professional, let alone a scientist is risible.  You don't even know how to dissemble information accurately, let alone mount a point by point rebuttal and make a case, which is the basic methodology of science, its primary objective being to DISPROVE a theory, as opposed to proving it.

JesusisGod777888

@Dee

Intelligence does not exist in you.

God is a plural noun. Your confusion with the meaning of the word results in your own contradictions for lack of understanding.

Genesis 26 states God said let us therefore the word God is a conjunctive "us" you hybrid retard.

JesusisGod777888

@Grafix

Liars piss me off.

First of all pilots missives( whatever garbage your talking about) don't exist.

Justin Martyr, an early Christian apologist, is regarded as the foremost exponent of the Divine Word, the Logos, in the second century.

Born: 100 AD, Judea

Died: 165 AD, Rome, Italy

Parents: Priscus

Justin martyr refers to a document which pilate had written about Jesus Christ, called the seneatorial docket, located in 

Great Russell St, Bloomsbury, London WC1B 3DG, United Kingdom. It can be viewed in the museum

Pilates writings state:

Official report to Ceasear Augustus pg.277

-That Jesus Christ rose from the dead
- that his soldiers stated Jesus Christ rose from the dead
-that Pilot, Procla(pilots wife) licentius the man who speared Jesus Christ on the cross stated Jesus was dead on the cross and had risen again and met him
-that the Pharisees were swallowed by the earth and died
-that pilate observed men and women rising to Heaven.

So wherever you're getting that the guards were paid not to tell that the apostles stole Jesus Christ Body from the tomb is retarted as a soldiers wage was more than people could afford

The actual legitimate document doesn't state such a thing at all! Damn so shut your up!

 278 contains

Tiberius Ceasear condemns pilate to execution and states

-For crucying God and ruining the world pilate is condemned to execution

So shut your a s s up. 

The crap is you're made up history?

JesusisGod777888

Second it should be obvious since God is not human in order for him to become human he had to be born.

It's kind of a DUH!

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

You know, if someone actually discovered blood like what you described in your story, it would not be suppressed but rather every effort would be made to clone it and then distribute it. After all, immortal blood has major military advantages as well as civilian uses. It requires no expensive storage, nor does it degrade over time. Such a discovery would be celebrated in science, and made a staple of health. Blood donations would not be necessary, as everything needed could be derived from a single sample.
There is scarcely a technology developed with military purpose that is not pursued.

Yet again, you show some acute intellect.  I agree whole-heartedly.  It is precisely why the provider of the blood samples requested to be present during the testing.  Bear in mind he did not reveal to the technicians in the lab whose blood the samples were from until after they had revealed the results to him.  He then asked them to return all of the samples back to him and took them home.  He has since passed away, but his wife has said they are in "safe keeping", for all of the reasons you state.

Dee

@JesusisGod777888

***** Intelligence does not exist in you.

Yet you’re the one who believes in virgin births 

****God is a plural noun. Your confusion with the meaning of the word results in your own contradictions for lack of understanding.

The plural of god is gods tricky stuff but there ya go 

****Genesis 26 states God said let us therefore the word God is a conjunctive "us" you hybrid retard. 

Genesis also refers to a talking serpent,  your point is?

Grafix

@JesusisGod777888!  WOW!  Shooting from the hip and so aggressive with no proof to back such accusations.  Your post, although valuable, could have been more appreciated without the acidic ad hominem.

I guess you don't understand the definition of monotheism, which is the academically accepted, historically accepted and globally accepted definition of Christianity.

The missives from Pilate to Rome that I reference, is held in an archive in Germany., as I recall.   Details of the depository without researching them again, I can't give off the top of my head, but it was definitely in Germany. and another is held in the Jewish archives.  I'm sure with some research, I could easily locate both.  I first read them some years ago.  Do you think there is but a single message - often referenced as missives - sent to Rome by Pilate with such a tumult going on? Hardly.  Yet you pretend the single one you quote is the only one and therefore the case is closed. How ridiculous, if not arrogant.

You've nicely reinforced that Pilate did notify Rome and did say some of that which I have already stated.  I am sure with diligent research, we could find even more.  If you want to push the point, I'm more than happy to search for the records I referenced and link to them.  

JesusisGod777888

@Grafix

I don't care what you call proof because you're retarted. Your standard of proof is initially retarted.

Second The Lccn (Library of Congress Control number) 37015519Ocr is the official public record of Jesus Christs existence and Ressurection.

Publication date 1891Topics Jesus Christ, Pilate, Pontius, active 1st century, Tiberius, Emperor of Rome, 42 B.C.-37 A.DPublisher Indianapolis, Ind.. R. DouglassCollection library_of_congress; americanaDigitizing sponsor Kahle/Austin FoundationContributor The Library of CongressLanguage English

First published, 1880, under title: The Acts of pilate.

The Bibles authenticity and absolute accuracy has been a known fact since 1880. So no one cares about you're lies.

It is written man does not live on bread alone but ever word that comes out of the mouth of God.

Full catalog MARXL

I'm not a maid you look it up and shut your a
S
S up spreading lies you devil.

JesusisGod777888

@Grafix

I don't care what you call proof because you're retarted. Your standard of proof is initially retarted.

Second The Lccn (Library of Congress Control number) 37015519Ocr is the official public record of Jesus Christs existence and Ressurection.

Publication date 1891Topics Jesus Christ, Pilate, Pontius, active 1st century, Tiberius, Emperor of Rome, 42 B.C.-37 A.DPublisher Indianapolis, Ind.. R. DouglassCollection library_of_congress; americanaDigitizing sponsor Kahle/Austin FoundationContributor The Library of CongressLanguage English

First published, 1880, under title: The Acts of pilate.

The Bibles authenticity and absolute accuracy has been a known fact since 1880. So no one cares about you're lies.

It is written man does not live on bread alone but ever word that comes out of the mouth of God.

Full catalog MARXL

I'm not a maid you look it up and shut your a
S
S up spreading lies you 

Dee

@Grafix

How hilarious two “Christians” who cannot even make their minds up on which version of B S to accept 

Grafix

@JesusisGod777888 - There is a right way and a wrong way to express your distrust of someone.  Boy!  Yours is not the Christian way.  Sent in here as controlled opposition to fool everyone?   Sure looks like it.

OK.  I said if you pushed me I would show you the evidence.  I found something even more comprehensive than that which I had committed to memory.  It's even better.  Here you go.


This is what is known as the "abridged" version.  The complete document, known as Acta Pilati, [Acts of Pilate] is HERE.  Skip to Page 48 of Pilate's Report about Jesus.  (Use Arrow Keys to turn pages).  You do realise this is the record you actually cite in your own posts above?  O.K..  So I think you're arguing with the wrong party here.  We agree Acta Pilati  is an astounding recognition of Christ as God by a Roman Proctor and Pagan.

Grafix

@Dee - LOL!  Well, I guess he shrugged at the news, seeing he had at first quietly planned to divorce Mary until God told him it was OK.  He thought she must have gotten up to some hanky panky with some other dodgey , until God and Mary set him straight.

Grafix

@JesusisGod777888 - If you are the Christian your moniker purports you to be, then do you accept this Biblical Gospel of Matthew, shown below?  If you are of the Jewish faith, I can accept your embarrassment, but there is no need to be embarrassed.  The Jewish people have my highest regard and respect.  Were it not for them, we would be all Heathens with barbarous ways, like some among our common enemies.  The Jewish people gave the Christians Christianity, civilizing the Western world.  We are forever grateful for their Patriarchs, for our shared Judeo-Christian heritage and Messiah.  Here's the Gospel, which you challenged in an earlier post of yours:

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix

Grafix said:

@Happy_Killbot - OK.  Good answer, although I don't think you meant to type this the way you did, because it is a contradiction in terms. 

It is impossible for the mother to provide different eggs, every one will have unique DNA. Every egg she will produce is already different from the moment they form.

 I confess I frequently only ever scraped through biology and genetics, so I would have to research some of your points to be certain you are correct, particularly in claiming the mother does not produce two eggs the same and that this accounts for why no two siblings look alike, but then you state with admirable honesty that it does not change the DNA of the egg, which puzzles me greatly, because I do know for certain that our DNA is the blueprint of each and every one of us, meaning it defines the colour of our hair, even the character of its fibre, whether fine, coarse, thick or thin, wavy or straight, etc.  Same with every detail of every cell in our body from skin, eyes, teeth to our big toe nail, so I wonder then if the "different egg" scenario you state can be factual in influencing appearance, or whether I've misread your meaning because of your obviously inadvertent typo?

Nevertheless, the pivotal fact remains that not any two of us have exactly the same DNA, but simply what are called common "markers" which every generation from the beginning of time never loses, the reason they know today that the Arabs and the Hebrews came from the same ancestry, for example.  So although our chromosome combination may differ slightly and that may even account for the difference in our appearance, the fact remains that we can only inherit DNA, our bodies cannot "make" it anew or "develop" it in the same way material cellular functions can.  Therefore the original question remains.  From whence do we get our individual DNA?

Your lack of understanding is hurting me. I'm over here genetically modifying bacteria for fun, refining uranium and building robots, and you are struggling with basic biological concepts. You can use the internet to answer your questions, every time you realize there is something you don't understand you can find an answer. sometimes the answer is "I don't know" does this mean that you fill the void with god? No, because then you lose all motivation to find the real answer.

There is no contradiction in my comment, you believe there is because you have a fundamental conceptual error in the way you think that DNA functions. To answer your question, I'm not going to answer it, because if you desire an answer you will look for it on your own, and if I tell you, perhaps you will not listen, and I can't guarantee understanding anyways. If you are genuinely curious, you will have to go out of your way to find the answers.

Finding knowledge is about capability, belief is about comfort. For example, if I didn't have an understanding of biology and how DNA works, then genetically modifying bacteria would be outside of my capability. If I had asked: "How does this bacteria do?" and decided the answer was god, my progress would have stagnated.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix I think you miss the point about "the messiah's blood" being useful.

The point is, if it actually existed, it would be everywhere by now.

It isn't so the story is probably false.

Happy_Killbot

@JesusisGod777888 @Grafix You two started going at each other's throats? How Christian of both of you! This is why nobody wants to associate with Christians anymore, you can't even get your own "truths" straight. At least in science when something is proven true for useful purposes it is excepted, even if some people don't like the results because of their own competing theories.

The odds are that you are both wrong, it is much more likely that the majority of the bible is made up, and then modified which is why you can't agree on the details and interpretations. You are reading the same book in different ways, and so coming to different conclusions. You can no both be right, but you can both be wrong.

Maybe a little humility would serve you both well, another thing that Christians often claim but certainly lack. 

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

You can use the internet to answer your questions, every time you realize there is something you don't understand you can find an answer. sometimes the answer is "I don't know" does this mean that you fill the void with god? No, because then you lose all motivation to find the real answer.

Agree with all of that, except for the very last sentence.  The internet has no answer.  It is the same as your answer.  A void of knowledge and then you beg us not to fill that void with God.  Some see it as a void, happy to let it rest there and staunchly defend that void, like you, un-enquiring minds.  Others seek further explanation only to discover it is not really a void after all, but merely appears to be one, a projection of one, because the answer is not in our dimension.  It lies in the next dimension, not of this earth.  Space is a void, a material void of nothing.  The void we are speaking about here is the void of knowledge.  Agreed? An absence of information.  Agreed?  

It is the same void which Richard Dawkins championed, but could no longer claim was a void, once DNA was discovered.  DNA filled the void of information with knowledge, DNA itself the knowledge, the missing information and Dawkins understood that.  Suddenly he no longer had anything to defend.  He had spent his life defending the void, that nothing else was acceptable, but the void, until it was filled with knowledge.  God has a sense of humour.  He filled the void of knowledge with the science of information -  DNA - and smote His enemies with the very thing they championed - knowledge.  It is beautiful parody, the ultimate paradox.    

Dawkins having set himself up as the High Priest worshipping at the altar of science could hardly deny the reality of the science of DNA.  It cornered his argument, stole his congregation.  He had built his career on setting himself up as the sage on this very subject, he the pinnacle of the void theory.  Suddenly the void was filled with the very thing which Dawkins said it must be filled - knowledge, the information in DNA.  It stole his career, stole from him his audience, stole his argument.  There was nothing left to argue.  Instead of gracefully retiring, Dawkins threw himself a lifeline to keep his audience, to keep the spotlight shining on himself and appealed to the concept that DNA could have come from aliens.  That destroyed his credibility.  He fell on his own sword, the lust for attention, adulation and worship, smitten by knowledge, by information, the very thing he lusted after.

It was God's ultimate put down of Dawkins, in precisely the same way he put down Satan.  Satan lusted after power.  God condemned Satan to crawl on his belly and eat dirt, reducing his power to snapping at the heels of his enemies.  Like Dawkins, (and many others), Satan too fell on his own sword.  God takes from his enemies that which they lust after most by using that which they lust for most against them to smite them.
.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Where is the evidence of "another dimension"?

You want something that is devoid of meaning and actual value, you might want to look in your own words.

DNA was discovered before Richard Dawkins was born.
https://www.lunadna.com/blog/history-of-dna/
https://www.google.com/search?q=richard+dawkins+birthday&oq=Richard+dawkins+birth&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l6.7267j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Whatever you are saying about Dawkins and DNA makes no sense whatsoever and I'm going to ignore it due to irrelevancy and utter incomprehensibility.

Void means empty, "void of Knowledge" means "place without knowledge" Space, which we commonly call a "void" is not empty, but rather is filled with all sorts of particles popping in and out of existence, known as the quantum foam. These particles come from nothing, and return to it just as fast as they appear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3xLuZNKhlY

If you are worried about their not being any information on the internet because you don't know who to trust, then you need to work on figuring out who to trust and who not to trust. Right now, your conscious is riddled with erroneous concepts and baseless claims. This makes you wrong in so many ways I wouldn't even know where to start. You need only assume an objective reality for things to start to make sense. If you assume that it not the basis of what is and is not true, and rather rely on your own beliefs, in time the universe will devour you, and there will be oblivion forever.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

Yes, DNA was discovered in the 19th Century, but it was not fully understood until in recent decades, i.e., how it actually worked and what it meant, particularly its significance in the promulgation of species.  That has only been fully understood to its fullest extent in the last two decades or thereabouts.  The turning point in that understanding is marked with the timestamp of when Dawkins' introduced his argument that DNA could come from aliens.  The complete understanding of the meaning of DNA in the entire concept of creation is precisely why Dawkins was compelled to introduce the alien argument, he being a committed atheist.

The definition of space is a void.  Are you going to deny that?  Sure, things can float in voids, but the void remains.  Likewise we humans float in a void of absence of knowledge, daily.  It's called ignorance. The void of  Ignorance will always remain, in spite of knowledge.  This is the quintessential dichotomy of space and stuff.  Both space and knowledge are infinite but one is an infinite void, the other an infinite knowing.  There's the quintessential dichotomy.  The more God stuffs the void of space with planets, the greater the void of space becomes.  The more we stuff the void of ignorance with knowledge the greater knowledge becomes.

You have try to think like God, to understand God and we all fail at that very miserably, but if we have faith and ask for His help, He gives us glimpses of that knowledge, more to some than to others.  I fear I am on the very bottom rung.  If we don't believe, we are condemned to ignorance.  He said so Himself ..

Hosea 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee

The void of knowledge on the Internet to which I refer is the one to which you referred, mocking that we fill it with God. The void in the understanding of how we are all so very much individuals, in spite of only having access to the very same DNA blueprint of our parents, yet not any two of us look the same, behave the same, react the same, think the same.  Isn't that the void of knowledge we are discussing here? I think it is.  I said DNA filled that void.  You claim I am filling it with God.  I am indeed, because the science demands it.  Dawkins even knew that, understood that the intelligence of DNA had to come from somewhere, hence his alien narrative. 

So where did it come from?  Evolution and natural science cannot produce something which has no cellular structure.  DNA, information, God's information, filled that void of knowledge and smote the atheists' argument, smitten by science itself, the very God of atheism.  As I said, God smites his enemies with their own sword, the object of their own pridefulness used against them.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - So ... in answer to your original question, now lost in the pages of this discussion, "Where did Christ's 'Y' chromosome come from?"  I argue, that if we accept that Joseph is not the father of Christ, but God is to which the Biblical texts attest and that Christ's human genomes came only from Mary and add to that the results of the lab tests done on three samples of Christ's blood, taken from three different sources, all showing he had but 23 chromosomes in total plus one "Y" sex chromosome, in all totalling only 24, then we can accept that he was half human and half God, as the Biblical texts claim.  In conclusion then, if God can give us the DNA which makes each of us an individual different from our parents and siblings, then why could God not give Jesus his DNA and the "Y" chromosome?  

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

You two started going at each other's throats? How Christian of both of you! This is why nobody wants to associate with Christians anymore, you can't even get your own "truths" straight. At least in science when something is proven true for useful purposes it is excepted, even if some people don't like the results because of their own competing theories.

But you have failed to follow the conversation between us.  When I suddenly realised that the references from the Archives of Congress, which the other commenter was alluding to, included and endorsed the very content of all of my posts, I pointed that out at the bottom of my post quoting that very same material.  Go back and read my post.  It is HERE.  So we were in total agreement.  I then looked up that commenter's own topics of discussion and confirmed that.  Even found his new topic of discussion and apologised to him, letting him know i had misjudged him, even though the cause of that misjudgement initially, by his very own accusations against me, was understandable.  What is not understandable is why he made them, when all of my arguments supported his faith. 

Upon looking at his new topic, I realized something which I cannot state here, as I would never wish to hurt one of God's children, particularly one so very devoted to God, clear from his recent topic.  God will look after him because of his faith and I am not about to publish the reasons for his possible anguish which I believe I may understand. I think if you do as I have done, look for the answer in his comments and topic, you too will understand it.  That's why I wrote the comment I did to you about sense and sensibilities.  In any event, attacking the brief spat between us, hardly proves an argument against the broader topic here.  It is not even a defence.

Humility?  Says he who cannot recognize another's deep hurt.  Yeah right.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

@Grafix I think you miss the point about "the messiah's blood" being useful.
The point is, if it actually existed, it would be everywhere by now.
It isn't so the story is probably false.

My reply is still the same, because it addresses the very point you make.  The provider of the samples made sure that none were left at the lab for that to be even remotely possible and took all of them home with him.  His wife states that they are in  "safe keeping" as she describes it, careful not to reveal where.  Here it is again:

@Happy_Killbot - 
Yet again, you show some acute intellect.  I agree whole-heartedly.  It is precisely why the provider of the blood samples requested to be present during the testing.  Bear in mind he did not reveal to the technicians in the lab whose blood the samples were from, until after they had revealed the results to him.  He then asked them to return all of the samples back to him and took them home.  He has since passed away, but his wife has said they are in "safe keeping", for all of the reasons you state.

In any event, there are insufficient genes/chromosomes to form a complete species of anything, without the intervention of God, because the other 23 chromosomes are missing.  Their absence represents Jesus' divinity and that could only come from God Himeslf.  Do you really think God would give his Spiritual divinity to some diabolical endeavour on earth to re-produce His Divinity?  I don't think so.  Without His injection of His own Spirit the blood is not useful to anyone.   How do you suppose it came alive in the lab?  Again by the hand of God, given that nature could not bring it to life, meaning the saline solution - as the technicians had already said it could not.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix It is wrong to think that empty space is a vacuum,

It is foolish to think that we have a complete understanding of DNA.

It is even more foolish to think that god exists because some book says so,

And it is incomprehensibly foolish to think that there is no knowledge to be found on the internet.

What you don't understand is that there is good information, which has useful application and learning, there is ugly information, which is wrong but not dangerous, and then there is bad information that intends to manipulate or change you.

For example, a tutorial on how to build write a computer program is good information

An edited video showing some unbelievable stunt or evidence is ugly information

A group which is telling you CERN is evil or 911 was an inside job is bad information

What you don't seem to be able to do is to filter out the different types of information. If nothing but bad and ugly information goes in, nothing but bad and ugly beliefs can be developed. What you need to develop is a way of thinking about things that will lead you to truth. This study is called epistemology.

The questions I was asking you are just that, trying to get you to think in an epistemic way.

When I ask: "How do you know what you think is true?"

and you respond: "It is in these books, ancient writings, and I have been told this many times"

I ask: "how do you know you can trust those sources, for example could it be something else happened to cause them?"

and you respond: "I know they are true, so why question them?"

This is where you fail to think in a coherent way. You are making it so that your beliefs can not possibly be wrong, even if they can be show to be obviously false. For example, that "Messiah's blood" story is definitely made up, the same way Harry Potter is made up.

How do I know?

First off, it violates the way the human genome works. you write:

add to that the results of the lab tests done on three samples of Christ's blood, taken from three different sources, all showing he had but 23 chromosomes in total plus one "Y" sex chromosome, in all totalling only 24, then we can accept that he was half human and half God, as the Biblical texts claim.  In conclusion then, if God can give us the DNA which makes each of us an individual different from our parents and siblings, then why could God not give Jesus his DNA and the "Y" chromosome?  

But you already know that humans have 22 chromosomes plus one 'x' and then either a 'Y' or a second 'x' which controls gender, totaling 23. When you say Jesus has 23 plus one 'Y' that implies that he has two 'Y' chromosomes, or he has two 'x' and one extra 'Y' (a condition known as klinefelter syndrome) for a total of 47 chromosomes instead of the normal 46.
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/basics/howmanychromosomes
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/klinefelter-syndrome

Based solely on this detail, I can say that the whole thing is bunk. Maybe it was a gaff on your behalf, and you meant that Jesus did have  klinefelter syndrome. The next question is: "how did the blood survive for 2,000 years? the problem with this is that there are microorganisms in the environment that would eat the blood. If Jesus was somehow immune to this, what would that imply? First off, it would mean that he can't eat anything. You gut is filled with billions of bacteria, most of which are unique to your body (no two people have identical gut bacteria) without them, you can not eat anything.

Another angle to probe here, is can Jesus's cells have killed his other cells? That sounds a little absurd, but it is true.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3626278/
You body has natural killer T cells that kill your own cells if they are damaged or contain viruses. Does the immunity of Jesus's blood over many generations imply that it has lost this ability? If the blood can be reanimated, then this means that these killer cells would not be able to keep it down, and any mutations that naturally occur will run rampant. This is what cancer is. Cancer is cells that have lost the ability to die.
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/what-is-cancer/how-cancer-starts/cancer-cells

Maybe you say, well, isn't that convenient? this story just makes sense if I just declare Jesus a cancer!

But there is another problem, and that is the problem of pragmatism. Consider if I say that I have a magic Genie in a lamp who will grant all my wishes, but I keep it locked away because I think it is too powerful.

Would you believe this person?

I would not, because until they present the lamp and expose the Genie, it is most likely that they are lying. This was my point before, nothing is true except what is useful. The reason science is so powerful and religion is so useless is because of this philosophy. Science lets you do awesome things. Religion is a tool to get money out of the gullible.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

But you already know that humans have 22 chromosomes plus one 'x' and then either a 'Y' or a second 'x' which controls gender, totaling 23. When you say Jesus has 23 plus one 'Y' that implies that he has two 'Y' chromosomes, or he has two 'x' and one extra 'Y' (a condition known as klinefelter syndrome) for a total of 47 chromosomes instead of the normal 46.

You see, there's your duplicity again.  The only rebuttals you can ever mount are by misrepresenting your opponent's arguments and look how you think you can make hay out of that here, going on and on and on, waxing lyrical, pontificating and, although accurate science, is not even relevant here, because you are rebutting an invented argument which you invented, based on a lie, on a misinterpretation.  To start with you acknowledge that you know that I "already know".  Correct, I do and you fully aware that I do, given I posted this graphic below, when discussing the lab test findings of Christ's blood, in order to show normal people's genomes:
:

So, it is more than obvious I would not make the mistake you claim I made.  You have very deceitfully transliterated the meaning of 23 SINGLE  chromosomes to conflate it with 23 PAIRS of chromosomes.  Christ did not have ANY PAIRS, because He had but one from his father.  The 23 came from his mother.  He had exactly HALF of each pair, his mother's half  Got that?  So jerk off back to where you came from and have a big fat Momma hyperventilation all over again in your safe space.  So puffed up and all too eager to jump into a victory lap, were you, (which is all you are interested in), you then claimed this ...

Based solely on this detail, I can say that the whole thing is bunk. Maybe it was a gaff on your behalf, and you meant that Jesus did have  klinefelter syndrome. The next question is: "how did the blood survive for 2,000 years?

Sorry, but I just proved that is a truckload of horse shi*ite higher than Mt. Vesuvius and your are full of it  Yeah, how did the blood samples come back to life?  When you have a better answer than maybe the hand of God had something to do with that, given it is God's blood, let me know.  Until then quit with the Snowflake whining.

NEXT?  Below I put my responses in red in reply to your text in black.  



you have a very serious problem of laughing at evidence, ridiculing evidence, complaining about evidence, but yet do nothing to PROVE you have any GROUNDS for such derelict conduct.  That's your problem.  If you don't believe the evidence then, fine.  You have two choices and only two, if you value your friends' respect and your credibility online.  First choice STFU and say nothing.  2nd choice:  Don't open your mouth unless you can contribute something relevant and don't contest evidence unless you can DISPROVE it.   You break both rules all the time,  For a while, you were reasonable, but then dropped through the crack in the floor boards again.  Maybe that's the very problem - crack.  If you think you can disprove the lab test results from a higher authority, you're welcome.  Until then STFU.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix You are so angry that I demolished your argument... 

you have a very serious of laughing at evidence, ridiculing evidence, complaining about evidence, but yet doing nothing to PROVE you have any GROUNDS for such derelict conduct.

An English this is not.

That's your problem.  If you don't believe the evidence than, fine.  You have two choices and only only two if you value your friends' respect and your credibility on line. 

It is foolish to believe in evidence. Rather, evidence is about certitude.

First choice STFU and say nothing

Never.

2nd choice:  Don't open your mouth unless you can contribute something relevant and don't contest evidence unless you can DISPROVE it.

I have thoroughly disproved it, and besides you are shifting the burden of proof. It is not my job to provide the evidence for your claims, it is yours. Annecdotal evidence such as stories do not count, because they could have been made up.

You break both rules all the time,  For a while, you were reasonable, but then dropped through the crack in the floor boards again.

You draw a false dichotomy here, because there is a third option, which I will make apparent in a moment.

Maybe that's the very problem - crack.

Yeah, right.



See, what you don't know is that I wrote that story, I am the author. I made it all up, and years ago at that. I make tons of stories like these, with the help of my some of my atheist friends. We do it specifically for this purpose, it is how we make money. You are just our latest victim. I know I can tell you this, because you won't believe it. They never do, always staying under their safety blankets. That's just how it has to be.

MayCaesar

I swear, talking to religious fanatics is like talking to someone when you do not share a single common language. You are saying something, comprising arguments, etc. - and they just say something in their own tongue that seems to have nothing to do with what you said, and you are left guessing whether they even understood what you said or not.

Had a lot of such interesting encounters in Japan. I say something in English - they just smile. Then they say something in Japanese - I just smile. I say something in English again... Fun for a while, but does not really go anywhere, so at some point you have to use something everyone understands: make a gesture as if drinking and point to a pub. Once you get drunk enough, you suddenly start understanding each other perfectly!

I would need to get really-really drunk though to be able to find common language with someone like @Grafix. They just seem to operate in a completely different logical framework.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot =   Your entire post is posted below.  All of my replies are bracketed in bold text and italics.  Anything else, you wrote.

You are so angry that I demolished your argument... (Demolished my argument? You did?  Where's your evidence disproving the lab test of Christ's blood analysis?  Disproving Pilate's letters to Tiberius?  Disproving the evidence which proves Christ's Divinity,  i.e. others' references OUTSIDE of the Bible testifying to His miracles, His resurrection, the empty tomb, the eye witness accounts, His ascension?)

you have a very serious (problem) of laughing at evidence, ridiculing evidence, complaining about evidence, but yet doing nothing to PROVE you have any GROUNDS for such derelict conduct.

An English this is not. ([LOL!  Pissed myself laughing right there.  You pick up a typo error as a victory lap and make one yourself.  LOL!  This is English, quoting you:  "An English this is not" ???)

That's your problem.  If you don't believe the evidence then, fine.  You have two choices and only two if you value your friends' respect and your credibility on line. 

It is foolish to believe in evidence. Rather, evidence is about certitude.  (I see, so let's chuck out all of our scholarship in science and history based on evidence.  Good one, Jeronomo.)

First choice STFU and say nothing

Never.  (No need to remind us.  We already know that's your problem, when you have nothing to contribute of value in evidence.  Witness this entire post I am responding to.)

2nd choice:  Don't open your mouth unless you can contribute something relevant and don't contest evidence unless you can DISPROVE it.

I have thoroughly disproved it, and besides you are shifting the burden of proof. It is not my job to provide the evidence for your claims, it is yours. Annecdotal evidence such as stories do not count, because they could have been made up.  (You have?  LIke to show us where, without resorting to lies and deceptions you merely claimed are rebuttals in evidence, as per the above example on genomes.  Careful now, I never let a single falsehood get past me, if it concerns the reputation of the Good Lord.)

You break both rules all the time,  For a while, you were reasonable, but then dropped through the crack in the floor boards again.

You draw a false dichotomy here, because there is a third option, which I will make apparent in a moment.  (Is the third option to lie and misrepresent others' evidence and statements to pretend you have an argument in rebuttal and dive down rabbit holes with irrelevant whines to distract from the topic?  I already addressed those as an option by stating if you don't value your friends' opinions or your credibility online, fine, go down that attack route.  It is the third option you chose.  If you deliberately chose it with deliberate intent, gee thanks for admitting you're a complete a-hole.)

Maybe that's the very problem - crack.

Yeah, right.  (As if you would admit it, if it were.  LOL!  Your occasional windows of lucid argument suggest it.)  

See, what you don't know is that I wrote that story, I am the author. I made it all up, and years ago at that. I make tons of stories like these, with the help of my some of my atheist friends. We do it specifically for this purpose, it is how we make money. You are just our latest victim. I know I can tell you this, because you won't believe it. They never do, always staying under their safety blankets. That's just how it has to be.

(Well then, that is the definition of a paid troll from an organised troll farm, who is paid to spread propaganda, misinformation, disinformation and fake whatever it suits the Agenda of his keepers, in order to influence peddle, inculcate and herd the sheeples into that ultimate Agenda.  Congratulations!  Go back to my early posts to you.  I used references like Teqiyya, (research the meaning), Desert Autocrats, textbook Alinsky Marxism and Satanism.  All of these groups share a SINGLE Agenda and work together in the dichotomy of the Socialist Agenda in bed with crony-capitalism, to dismantle Christianity and faith in God and also to destroy the Constitution.  I note these are two of your favorite topics.  Christianity stands side by side with the Constitution firmly blocking their Agenda.  Their ultimate goal?  To destroy the global dominance of Western influence.  The first place to start historically has always been to first dismantle a nation's civil system of law and its moral laws and moral fabric.  You attack both, relentlessly.)  

(Do you realise this defines you as a treasonous traitor to the U.S., (if you are a citizen) and you must be reported and tried for treason?  The penalty for treason is death, No ifs, No buts.  If you are not a U.S. citizen and engaging in this activity, then you must likewise be not only reported, but tried, incarcerated and deported.  Happy to admit to your third option, still?) 
.

Happy_Killbot

@MayCaesar No kidding! These types are on a different planet in terms of what is true and what isn't. I mean, just look at the discussion between myself and grafix over the last few pages. In order to answer where Jesus got his Y chromosome, he presented this story about someone sequencing DNA from Jesus's blood and finding that after thousands of years it was still alive. Then all of the samples sent to different credible labs suddenly disappeared. I have pointed out how this is scientifically dubious, and besides that completely without pragmatic benefit (apart from convincing him and likely others that it is true) and of course, he just screams that none of it proves anything and then tries to shift the burden of proof. This guy in particular seems to believe some crazy stuff, so I decided to test his gullibility to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes. Finally after all that I just told him that I wrote the story about Jesus's blood, (which is true BTW) and you can read his rant above. It is one of the most laughably insane things I have ever read, as if every lie, misunderstanding, and propaganda fueled misdirection was concentrated in a horse's stomach, before it had diarrhea strait into his brain.

These types of discussions always go this way with fundamentalists, they all do this. No amount of epistemology, methodology, or ontology will ever change their minds, unless by some miracle they decide they want to change. There is little productive that can go on with these people, it is usually best to just profit from them as best you can.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Very Good!  Now that you know the truth, I guess we have no choice but to give you a glimpse behind the curtain. but beware, if you fail to adhere to our strict rules, there will be consequences. Very few get to find out how things are really run.

Dee

@MayCaesar

**** I swear, talking to religious fanatics is like talking to someone when you do not share a single common language

Thats exactly what it’s like , it’s utterly pointless and futile , these people actually believe a daily  celestial battle takes place between Satan and god and anyone who’s not a fundie is obviously a satanist , every piece of scientific evidence is all part of a big conspiracy been waged by Atheists who don’t believe in supernatural entities but yet apparently worship Satan.

I adimire @Happy Killbot efforts at attempting to educate  @Grafix but he’s totally lost and his countenance should  be used as a billboard poster warning of the lamentable end results of extreme indoctrination 

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You think we are the victim.  You actually are, victims of the political class who accept funds, (bribes and campaign funding), while you accept wages from the same puppeteer globalist criminals, who seek to control governments and destroy the supremacy of global Western influence.  You are a pawn, a mere tool and will be kicked aside and booted into the gutter with the rest of the cattle, which they see us all as.  They want cheap labor across the board, across the globe.  The West's high price for labor and standard of living cuts too much into their profit margins.  So, their Agenda is to bring the West to its knees so that we will come begging, accept any wage, just to feed our families and you think you are so superior, that you are on top of it.  

No , you are instrumental in ensuring that we all lose everything that we have taken for granted, job security, decent wages, decent homes, a decent car, decent clothes, entertainment access and leisure holidays.  These will be all stripped away and we'll be just another failed State, bankrupted by the Socialist Marxist, the vehicle of the crony-capitalist Agenda, reduced to a tin pot, third world banana Republic totalitarian State.  You are completely clueless and a treasonous traitor in the making. 

MayCaesar

@Grafix

Not believing in your Christian god due to lack of evidence makes us all into that? Okay, buddy. 

From my perspective, you are all fundamentally the same: fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist Muslims, socialists, fascists... You all believe in fairy tales and are willing to destroy entire societies in your pursuit of utopias the possibility of which is not supported by anything but your fantasies. Keep going, guys! You destroying various places makes the world interesting and incentivises me to constantly move from country to country, which I absolutely love. Would not want to spend my whole life on one small chunk of the land anyway. You guys give me a kick in the rear end just when I become a bit too complacent with living in my current country. You serve the same function as forest fires, cleaning up the old and promoting the growth of the new.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix You have got it all backwards, we are the ones who made all of that possible. We need to keep you all in line, which is why we invented religion. All of the things you think you have for granted, we gave them to you so that we could take them away should you misbehave.

Keep in mind, I am a multi-millionaire with my own company, workers, and "pawns" as you would describe them. I can do what I want.

Those who figure it all out though, threaten the system and the stability of it, so usually we have to let them into the secrets, but only if they are willing to cooperate, otherwise there will be consequences. We can't have the truth getting out, now can we?

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - LOL!  Who's your royal "We"?  You're a multi-millionaire?  Right.  Got it and unicorns fly.  Who spends his every waking minute being paid to write drivel in online chat boards?  A multi-millionaire?  LOL!  Back on the crack are you?  You forget that you wrote this:

Grafix

@MayCaesar - Doing your usual "proof text" reading May?  Please follow the whole conversation between Killjoy and I, so that you can contribute with some relevance.  

You are very good, though, with the textbook Alinsky Marxist tropes, i.e., role reversal psychology.  You don't even understand or know you are actually participating, so inculcated are you, like all of the sheeples.  I've already explained which politic is the vehicle for the Agenda.  Explained the Agenda too.  Neither Christianity nor conservatism subscribe to any of their dirtbag politic, soul-destroying policies, trailer trash values therefore it makes no sense to "label" conservatives and Christians with them. The fact you even deploy "labels" gives you away.  It is part of the inculcation.  Everyone is "labelled" to denigrate them into a "collective" like boxcar cattle.  We oppose them.  See through their plans.  Have evidence against them.  Know their subterfuges.  There are good guys still in Intelligence, even though Clapper and Brennan gutted it on the instructions of Obama, but they could not touch the Military Intel guys, the good guys, who know exactly what is going on.   Conservatives and Christians are the thorn in the side of this insidious and treasonous Agenda, standing in its way, the prickle in its craw.  

Subsequently, true to their Marxist tropes, they vilify all and any who dare to block their vile and duplicitous dung heap.  Christianity is vilified, conservatism is vilified, nationalism is vilified, patriotism is vilified, free market capitalism is vilified, individualism is vilified, independence is vilified, moral backbone is vilified, etc. etc., because these are the values which stir the people to reject their designs on us all, to stand in their way and fight the good fight against those who would destroy these very things, because those who value these values do stand in their way, including the Constitution.  It's why these scumbags want to take our guns, so we can't defend ourselves.
.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix ;

Read em' and weep:


Seriously, this is the US! 5.8% of the US population is a millionaire, (about 1 in 20) 

AND 7.1% of the US is Atheist or Agnostic. You think that is a coincidence don't you?

No, it is that way because the 19 in 20 people who are not rich we keep under our thumb by feeding them conspiracy and religion. It's worked like a charm for thousands of years!

Ever since we made up religion, most people have been like puppets in our hands, and those few who figure it out and reject the lies they have been fed get to become rich.

It is your decision, either you can live in the false reality you have been force fed, or you can wake up and join the ranks of the elite.