Why is the virgin birth of Messiah a necessity?

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You claim I have said the following ....

@MayCaesar - In order to answer where Jesus got his Y chromosome, he, [refererrng to me, Grafix]  presented this story about someone sequencing DNA from Jesus's blood and finding that after thousands of years it was still alive. Then all of the samples sent to different credible labs suddenly disappeared.

Why can't you deal in the truth?  Might slap you into a reality you can't cope with?...  Or a reality you are paid to deny? ... OR A reality which stands in the way of the political Agenda of those who pay you to troll and ridicule the truth?  That's really it, isn't it.

At the risk of repeating myself -  No, the fellow with the blood samples was not just "some guy".  God was working through Him against the likes of you.  No his samples weren't tested at "different credible labs".  They were all tested at the same accredited lab and after testing, he requested them back as he stood in the lab, to be sure they did not fall into the wrong hands, the reason he asked to be present during the testing, before he revealed whose blood it was.  Prior to that revelation, no-one knew and no-one was interested in the blood, as its supernatural divinity had not been revealed.  Once it was revealed, he was right there, able to protect and retrieve the samples.  His wife has said the blood samples are now in a "safe place". 

No, the blood samples were not alive throughout, but only, apparently according to reports, showed life for the duration of the testing, whilst in the reconstituted growth solution.  At all other times they were dead dry blood cells, just as they were found.  If you want to dispute the lab reports then fine, but without producing some credible EVIDENCE to support your debunkings, no-one is listening, .  No-one.  You will be busy for a long time.  Now why don't you like a good little soldier do an online search of "Christ's blood tested by science lab" and when you've read all of the accounts, try to see who is debunking without any evidence, but only with opinion and who has the REAL evidence.  That' the way to the truth, the life and the way, not your truckload of a dung heap with the foul stench of Satan.

Then you claim:

he, [meaning me, Grafix]  just screams that none of it proves anything and then tries to shift the burden of proof. 

No.  Yet again your forked tongue does waggle.  I have given you facts, supported by evidence, which you have every right to dispute.  Fine, but debunking by mere ridicule and derision with zero evidence in support to back your  debunkings, your hollow claims, is not the way it works, GungHo.  If you debunk, then you must ALSO provide credible evidence.  I don't have to provide proof to support your  claims.  YOU DO!  Got that?  Now produce it or STFU.  Remember that discussion, eh?  The first choice that we discussed?  If you cannot provide evidence to debunk the evidence then it is wiser to STFU.  Remember? 

So ... I've pointed you to the evidence - the lab Report.  Dispute it.  Now its your turn to disprove it, but you haven't.  The burden of proof is now  on YOU.  Disprove the Lab reports.  
.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Look, I wrote the blood story you are telling it all wrong. Now it is possible that you heard it second hand, since this story was written years ago, and is likely because of all the details you left out.

First off, you forget a crucial detail that is vital to the story: Where the blood came from. This is important because it has to do with how it was preserved for sampling. There is a Basilica in Belgium which contains a small glass vial with a piece of cloth inside which Jesus was wrapped in prior to being buried. The original story mentions how the one on display is a replica and the real one is hidden away.

The of course you modify the part about retrieving the DNA, you say some nonsense about "can't get a chromosome count from dead blood" which is preposterous, the story showed that the DNA was to be disintegrated, until the researchers looked and found it to be very much alive after all these years. You can get a DNA analysis, including a chromosome count from dried blood. The thing you need to know, is that the DNA can only be extracted from white blood cells, because red blood cells do not have any DNA. The story made this clear, because the researchers also found under the microscope that the white blood cells were still active, killing bacteria and maintaining the blood healthy.

You also change the time to 48 hours instead of 68 hours. The reason I chose this time was so that a secondary piece of proof for the work, which was a lab report compiled by the scientists could all show a similar schedule from the time the samples were exposed to air until the samples were observed under the microscope, approximately 2:00 PM until 10:00 AM two days latter. This is of course a direct reference to the 3 days until the resurrection in the bible. The exposure to air is of course when the vial containing Jesus's blood was opened, which is why that detail you left out is so important.

There is also the miscounting of the chromosomes from your story, which I have already show to be inaccurate.

The moral of this story? Don't use anecdotal evidence to try and prove a point, because you might be talking to one of the authors, and they will call you out on your !

That and I don't like it when people change my story to suit their infantile needs. The story leaves open the reason for Jesus to have a Y chromosome in the first place. This story got me almost $50,000, Although it has been a while so I would have to go back and check the numbers, it might be more now.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

Read em' and weep:

Then you present this graph below, that we are supposed to weep over ... someone else's wealth?  Mere money?  You really don't get it do you?  A heap of cheap, ill-gotten tinsel minted by a bank, a heap of digits on a bank statement, mere temporal power, mere temporal, tainted earthly riches, obtained from crime, from blood baths, killing those who dared to oppose and expose them, killing those about to testify against them and expose their trafficking of humans, their trafficking of little girls and boys, the grim reapers defiling them, keeping them in cages, then when these caged babes come of age the grim reapers impregnate them and use their very own wee babes which they themselves begat and offer them up in sacrifices to Satan.  Satan's God is their God, Baphomet.  It's a very old story.  You'll find it in the Old Testament, just a different bunch of Satanists.



Over 90,000 children disappear ea. year in America, alone.  What is the figure globally?  Those figures in that graph represent their  blood.  Snuffed out lives, including those aborted.  Oh! Yes. The same Satanists profit from aborted babes' body parts.  All God's little children snuffed out.  Remember Jesus said:  "Suffer the little children".  Remember?  You forget, thousands have been rescued in the last three years by a a President who knows, a President who "gets it".  Just as I "get it" and many like me "get it".  Those rescued children can speak. Spoken they have.  We know who their abusers are now, your masters.  We know where they hide, where they operate. 

Satan has fooled your keepers and they in turn have fooled you.  Very unwisely, you take their money and do their bidding - paid to spend every waking hour trawling chat rooms online, paid by them to debunk God's truths. Satan's money that you accept greedily.  He has only one weapon - deception.  You are his good little foot soldier.  He is weak.  God can cast him down with His little finger.  God purposely allows him to prowl the earth and reign over the likes of you.  Ultimately, your greed will destroy you, as so too will it destroy your masters. God always permits his enemies to fall on their own sword.  Greed and pride. Remember?  

Then you make one of the very few truthful statements you are mostly incapable of making - a boast, dripping with the same greed and pride ...

Seriously, this is the US! 5.8% of the US population is a millionaire, (about 1 in 20) 
AND 7.1% of the US is Atheist or Agnostic. You think that is a coincidence don't you?

So true and you haven't yet worked out why they are the one-percenters, have you?  Ever noticed which of the political elites enter politics with little wealth to their name and exit multi-millionaires?  The Satanic dirt bags. The weasels, the manipulators of the truth.  Think Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Chinagate, Emailgate, Spygate, NXIVM leader - Rainier a child trafficker.  How did his shiny stuff help him?  And Epstein, the ultimate pimp, trafficking little children.  How did his bright, shiny stuff help him?  They all worship at the wrong altar, my friend and you with them.  If you don't change your ways, you will be cast down with them.

Then you reveal the great deception by the master of deception, the prince of duplicity himself and you swallow it, hook line and sinker, as per this next claim ...

No, it is that way because the 19 in 20 people who are not rich we keep under our thumb by feeding them conspiracy and religion. It's worked like a charm for thousands of years!  Ever since we made up religion, most people have been like puppets in our hands, and those few who figure it out and reject the lies they have been fed get to become rich.

Yes, the great deception and you the poor, unwitting victim.  When you can explain Jesus' miracles, Jesus' resurrection, His empty tomb, the Jewish Priests bribing the Roman Centurions, Jesus' ascension into heaven, the "Acta Pilati", (Acts of Pilate) - (Go read them, Pilate testifying to Jesus' miracles in his letters to Tiberius, Emperor of Rome) - when you can disprove the accounts of ancient historians, Tacitus and Josephus Flavius, when you can disprove the history of God's people, starting with Adam and engraved on the Sumerian tablets with Adam's signature, when you can disprove the supernatural divinity revealed in Jesus' blood by science in lab tests and disprove Christ's only human chromosomes came from Mary, His Blessed Mother, you might have an argument, mate, but until then you have nothing.  You have been mightily duped and all for what?  The shiny gold stuff, your God's stuff, whose altar you worship at. It is temporal, meaningless and you can't take it with you.
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Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Yeah, that more or less how that works. Religion is to keep people like me in power, and people like you suppressed.

Jesus's miracles happened because we told you they did. The bible exists because we made it up. All the other works, including the Acts of Pilate? Also made by our hand and presented as truth. All the ancient historians work for us. We pay them to make convincing artifacts, all to keep people like you under control.

It is so effective, you would have no idea!

You know that warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you are in church, thinking about Jesus? It's a mild airborne Narcotic. It comes from the candles, but it can also be pumped in artificially.

There is no afterlife, we just convinced all you gullible half-wits that there is, and then told you that money was evil so that you would all be willing to give it all up to us!

I love telling lesser humans like you the truth, because I enjoy watching you squirm. You aren't getting in, and it doesn't matter who you tell.

Enjoy your lower-middle-upper class life! I'll enjoy feeding on your work so that I can have everything I want and more.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

Look, I wrote the blood story you are telling it all wrong. Now it is possible that you heard it second hand, since this story was written years ago, and is likely because of all the details you left out.

LOL!  Hang on a mo', while I pick myself up off the floor, fell out of my chair laughing.  Let me get this straight.  You claim you created all of the archaeologists, all of the scientists, all of the lab technicians, all of the  authorities who authenticate the findings of Christ's blood?  Even the most recent sample of blood taken from an archaeological dig in Jerusalem?  The one found in a cave directly beneath  the exact spot where the cross of Christ's crucifixion had stood?  You just waved your magic wand and created all of these people, including those involved in the taking of the samples, involved in the lab tests?  They are all on video, , telling the story, but we are supposed to believe that they are not real, just because you say so?  Really?  Yeah right.  I'm the Tooth Fairy's Godmother, too.  Forget the rules of evidence? 

Your dragging the Belgium piece into this is a ruse, because it's not even involved in the occasion I reference.  Not the same test and not the same lab.  Then you make this claim ....

You say some nonsense about "can't get a chromosome count from dead blood" which is preposterous, the story showed that the DNA was to be disintegrated, until the researchers looked and found it to be very much alive after all these years. You can get a DNA analysis, including a chromosome count from dried blood. The thing you need to know, is that the DNA can only be extracted from white blood cells, because red blood cells do not have any DNA. The story made this clear, because the researchers also found under the microscope that the white blood cells were still active, killing bacteria and maintaining the blood healthy.

Can't you see your own contradiction, right there?  I agree, a chromosome count can only be obtained from white blood cells.  Dead, dried blood contains zero  white blood cells.  Capiche?  So when the lab technicians told the provider of the samples that it was not possible to obtain a chromosome count from dried dead blood they were right.  When they said putting these dried cells in a growth medium would not make it possible to obtain a chromosome count, due to the absence of white blood cells, they were right.  A growth medium cannot create white blood cells, absent in the first place.  It can use only what it has to begin with. 

So .. where does that leave your duplicitous and contradictory little weaving of webs?  When you can explain how dried dead blood cells can be brought back to life, I'll start listening.  When you can explain how a growth medium can introduce new and different cells, namely white blood cells, not present in the sample from the get go, I'll start listening.  When you can admit accurate science, i.e., that a chromosome count cannot be obtained without  the presence of LIVE  white blood cells, I'll start listening.  Until then, you're merely doubling down, adding more dung to your dung heap now higher than the twin towers.

Again you try to conflate these two different accounts, two different occurrences, two different tests, by pretending my account relates to the Belgium account.  It does not.  Pants on fire, AGAIN.

You also change the time to 48 hours instead of 68 hours.

The 48 hours I reference are the 48 hours the samples were left in a growth medium, provided by the man through whom God was working - nothing to do with the Belgium sample.  Then you follow up with another doubling down, repeating claims I've already disproved with this ...

There is also the miscounting of the chromosomes from your story, which I have already shown to be inaccurate.

Here's the post which set your pants on fire over that bit of fakery ....


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Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - I absolutely love the hubris of your next post.  It is the be all and all of a deluded soul, so horribly corrupted and unspeakably inculcated. 

Yeah, that more or less how that works. Religion is to keep people like me in power, and people like you suppressed.
Jesus's miracles happened because we told you they did. The bible exists because we made it up. All the other works, including the Acts of Pilate? Also made by our hand and presented as truth. All the ancient historians work for us. We pay them to make convincing artifacts, all to keep people like you under control.
It is so effective, you would have no idea!
You know that warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you are in church, thinking about Jesus? It's a mild airborne Narcotic. It comes from the candles, but it can also be pumped in artificially.
There is no afterlife, we just convinced all you gullible half-wits that there is, and then told you that money was evil so that you would all be willing to give it all up to us!
I love telling lesser humans like you the truth, because I enjoy watching you squirm. You aren't getting in, and it doesn't matter who you tell.
Enjoy your lower-middle-upper class life! I'll enjoy feeding on your work so that I can have everything I want and more.

All we need to do is go back to the E V I D E N C E,  which I note you have yet to produce to support your claims.  We can see with our own eyes evidence being dug up every other week, over several millennia old, like the Sumerian tablets with Adam's signature on them.  I suppose you will tell us you were alive back then and destroyed the cities and rebuilt the cities which buried them there, after you had written them?  LOL.  They together with the thousands of other artefacts and parchments which testify to the existence of Christ and his miracles, eyewitness accounts, historical accounts outside of the Biblical texts. You and your mates wrote all of these too?  I have a copy of the Bible which was first printed more than 500 years ago.  You were alive then?  You and your mates were alive and wrote the original New Testament, nearly 2,000 years ago?  You and your mates wrote the Dead Sea scrolls?  You engraved the Sumerian tablets more than 5,000 years ago?  Yeah right and I am Methulesah himself.

This is the wash up, that you yourself have created by the hand of your very own digital denizenship, namely, denying the very story that you claim you created, after all, isn't it you who claims God and Jesus are Satan?  Isn't it you who denies the influence of the Judeo-Christian ethos upon the Founding Fathers reflected in the founding documents?  Logic 101, Einstein?  More fully explained as follows ...

Your admission that you are engaged in a deception - good reason not to trust a single thing you write.  Admission that the purpose is to channel all of the wealth from the mob, the masses, created from the backs of our, (we the mob), hard labor channelling it into the bank accounts of the one-percenters, who sit at the top of the tree.  The last statement I fully agree with, but it is not done the way you think it is.  It's done by keeping governments in debt through war and more war and other political subterfuge, which all necessitate that the government must collect more and more taxes to pay down the debt and interest on it.  The debt, of course, is owed to the very same super-wealthy elites, the crony-capitalists we speak of.  Via our taxes paid to government to pay down government debt that is how they bleed us of our own hard-earned wealth. 

They control the central banking system, global trade, global finance and global politics and which Political Party seeks to globalise everything?  Nuff said.  Agenda agreed.  These very same are your ultimate masters and keepers, while you slave away day and night visiting chat boards online for a pittance, paid with Satan's shekels to debunk the God story.  You claim you are a millionaire.  A millionaire would slave away as you do?  Yeah right.  What you fail to appreciate, is that why would these Satanic one-percenters invest billions upon billions in this propaganda, claimed by you to be just that?  In other words, the ultimate question you beg, is this:

If there is no God in the first place, then why would they spend billions and billions on debunking the very concept that they themselves invented, when they know it's not true - according to your version?  Logic 101 Einstein?  Even more perplexing is why did they invent the God story - according to you - only to debunk it?  What a useless and expensive exercise and a waste of capital.  Why debunk it, which is what you are doing, if it is, according to you, their own invention invented to enrich themselves?  Huh?  Logic 101, Einstein?  You claim they invented it to enslave us all to them, yet they are the ones most prominent in debunking the God story.  Huh?  As well, even if the God story was their very own, you haven't explained how a belief in God enslaves us to them.  It doesn't.  It actually does the exact opposite - provides us with the freedom to REJECT them  and that's what they hate most.  It is precisely why they do  spend billions on propaganda campaigns debunking the God story and why they have a heap of professional troll farms, employing trolls like yourself for a pittance to debunk God.
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ZeusAres42

Grafix said:

LOL!  I never saw Satan sacrifice anything, but for his own personal gain.  What did Christ gain on the Cross for Himself, personally?

What if Satan was Jesus? Is it not possible that Jesus was St. Lucifer reincarnated? According to Gnostic Christains that is the story.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix I didn't create the archaeologists, I never even said that, but I know who they work for and I know who they make what they do. Everything they "dug up" was planted.

Dead dried blood typically contains dead, dried white blood cells, thousands of crimes have been solved this way. Actually, you can't easily get DNA from wet blood, you have to dry it first. Who is denying accepted science now?
https://www.neoteryx.com/microsampling-blog/can-you-get-dna-from-dried-blood

What you have to understand about archaeology, is you can make it say whatever you want. When we want slaves good Christian people, we dig up bible stuff. That's how it works. We plant what we want, we get what we want. This has been going on for hundreds of years, and yes we did make the Sumerian tablets, Dead Sea scrolls, and basically everything else. There are only a few rare exceptions. Everything in the bible? 100% made up.

Consider the golden plates found by none other than Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church- when he was given the tablets he didn't just keep them for himself, he made sure to do what he was supposed to do- found the Mormon church. Today, that is one of our biggest profit centers. We make more money from the Mormons per person than any other religion in history, outpacing the wealth of the Catholic church at it's peak of power.

I don't "think" it's done this way, I KNOW it is done this way. You are just another one of our loyal god-believing slaves. You know why Ephesians 6:5 and Colossians 3:22 say what they do? I'll let you put 2 and 2 together yourself. 

Why do we spend so much resources debunking god myths? It is both reverse psychology and recruitment. Every time you tell a believer that their religion is false, they cling to it more tightly. In addition, when we find people who do not accept the stories we can pick from them the smartest and the most talented to join our ranks.

If you need proof of this working, you need only look in a mirror!

Anyways, I have probably said a bit too much now, and a troglodyte like you clearly have no place among the enlightened. Be a good little slave now and don't forget to say your prayers before you got to bed.

Grafix

@ZeusAres42 - That argument is dead and buried, already well prosecuted elsewhere in these pages.  Go visit them.  I have no intention of repeating myself on that subject right here.  It is just another little Luciferian helper's bait, a diversion away from an argument Satan just lost.  This is his methodology to divert the people's attention away from that very loss, by saying, Hey! Don't look here.  Look over there.

Why don't you instead try to explain Killjoy's upside down logic, given you belong to the same army?  Not gonna defend your mate in battle?  He is in a prickly pickle.  He has claimed the God story was invented to enrich a certain sector of society, including himself, yet he spends every wakeful minute debunking the God story.    Logic 101, Einstein?  I think your mate's story is in serious trouble, don't you?

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - Nice try, GungHo, but you adroitly avoided rebutting anything.  Just more doubling down on a preposterous mythical delusion and you accuse Christians of believing in myths.  LOL.  

Explain the following, which I have already asked twice now:

You claim the God story was invented to enrich a certain sector of society, including yourself, yet you spend every wakeful minute debunking the God story.    Logic 101, Einstein?  I think your story is in serious trouble, don't you?

ZeusAres42

Grafix said:

@ZeusAres42 - That argument is dead and buried, already well prosecuted elsewhere in these pages.  Go visit them.  I have no intention of repeating myself on that subject right here.  It is just another little Luciferian helper's bait, a diversion away from an argument Satan just lost.  This is his methodology to divert the people's attention away from that very loss, by saying, Hey! Don't look here.  Look over there.

Why don't you instead try to explain Killjoy's upside down logic, given you belong to the same army?  Not gonna defend your mate in battle?  He is in prickly pickle.  He has claimed the God story was invented to enrich a certain sector of society, including himself, yet he spends every waking minute debunking the God story.    Logic 101, Einstein?  I think your mate's story is in serious trouble, don't you?

@Grafix the both of you have made a lot of arguments as of late that I haven't really been paying much attention to. But you're right perhaps, maybe it is more prudent to focus on the current discussions right now between you two and in which I might do in due course. And if do this, and if there is anything that I agree with it will be based on reason.

piloteer

The virgin birth of Messiah was an awesome hardcore punk band that was pivotal for the hardcore movement, and their importance cannot be overstated. "DRINKING THE BLOOD OF THE LORD. DRINKING IT STRAIGHT FROM HIS VEINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS"!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was my personal favorite from them. Very important indeed.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Read the last three part of my previous comment.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - I did read it.  Those three paragraphs can be reduced to two words - "controlled opposition", which is what you are now pretending to be.  Shifting the goal posts.  You still haven't rebutted a single thing in my posts with any E V I D E N C E.  You are merely making wild, unsupported claims.  There is no possible way that the "establishment" could bribe the entire world of scholarship, academia, professionalism and all facets of science.  They try but fail.  We can see those who have been bribed, archaeologists such as Kathleen Kenyon.  We can see the ones caught in their lies and they all support the ANIT-GOD group, not the PRO-God group.  

Most of all, there is no logic in the proposition that a belief in God somehow enriches the crony-capitalist, globalist cartels.  We even have evidence of which political parties they fund, for whom they are the primary donor class.  It is the Socialist paradigm, not the conservative Christian sector of politics at all.  That speaks volumes.  So why are they funding the Socialist/Marxist paradigm, the anti-God atheist sector?  Because that is the Plutocratic structure of government they seek to implement - a Socialist collective of slaves with they the enriched Plutocrats in the seat of power, behind the veil, the elected governments just puppets, their puppets, like Obama, like Hillary &C.  Just follow the money.  It reveals all.  Who entered politics ye of little claim to fame and no claim to wealth, exiting politics as millionaires and a claim to fame?  Bought, sold and paid for.

It sticks out like dogs' balls, all in the pay of the globalist cartels to push through their political Agenda, such as open borders, targeting immigrants from nations which see us as the enemy, as infidels, the very same immigrants schooled in their mosques to persecute and kill us.  Ever checked the stats for the number of Christians brutally slaughtered ea. year and by whose hand? You don't systemically over hundreds of years, pursue the deaths of those who are no threat to you, do you?  Islam they use as their tool to get what they want.  That means Christianity and the Constitution, written with the influence of God's moral plan are a threat to them.  Witness:  The two identities they exert the most energy in attempting to dismantle and destroy.  The very same identities you and your team @Dee, @MayCaesar and others also attempt to destroy and vilify.   Please try to think logically.
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Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was the one not using logic, failing to provide evidence, and ignoring actual scientific truth.

Any one can go back through and see how I did in fact provide conclusive evidence to put down our "Jesus's blood has been seen" story, and you provided 0 evidence that such a sample or test even actually existed, because there is none.

You are just as indoctrinated as intended, if you opened your eyes for the first time you would be blinded by the horrifying reality, but that's never going to happen. You will never except that you are just another expendable pawn in a game you don't know is going on.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2019/12/16/whistleblower-exposes-100-billion-stockpile-by-mormon-church
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=w05
https://www.swarthmore.edu/friends-historical-library/why-religions-facilitate-war-and-how-religions-facilitate-peace


Look, the purposes of religion are as follows:

• Make anxious people calm down and be productive members of society
• Extract wealth from believers
• Encourage moral behavior in the general population 
• Provide a means to stably increase the population
• Produce expendable soldiers for warfare
• Justify capital punishment
• Justify authority 
• Justify subjugation 

That is the true purpose of religions. If you want me to be more specific, I can do so, but most likely you will just drop another narcissist word salad.

ZeusAres42

Happy_Killbot said:

@Grafix Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was the one not using logic, failing to provide evidence, and ignoring actual scientific truth.

Any one can go back through and see how I did in fact provide conclusive evidence to put down our "Jesus's blood has been seen" story, and you provided 0 evidence that such a sample or test even actually existed, because there is none.

You are just as indoctrinated as intended, if you opened your eyes for the first time you would be blinded by the horrifying reality, but that's never going to happen. You will never except that you are just another expendable pawn in a game you don't know is going on.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2019/12/16/whistleblower-exposes-100-billion-stockpile-by-mormon-church
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=w05
https://www.swarthmore.edu/friends-historical-library/why-religions-facilitate-war-and-how-religions-facilitate-peace


Look, the purposes of religion are as follows:

• Make anxious people calm down and be productive members of society
• Extract wealth from believers
• Encourage moral behavior in the general population 
• Provide a means to stably increase the population
• Produce expendable soldiers for warfare
• Justify capital punishment
• Justify authority 
• Justify subjugation 

That is the true purpose of religions. If you want me to be more specific, I can do so, but most likely you will just drop another narcissist word salad.

Narcissist? who woke me?

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote:

Any one can go back through and see how I did in fact provide conclusive evidence to put down our "Jesus's blood has been seen" story,  LOL!

Huh?  Hang on a mo'.  You're now claiming you disproved THIS story?  You claimed you invented this story.  Now you don't want to own it anymore?

Anyone can claim they disproved a story, but it doesn't mean they did, now does it?  Links to anti-Christian sites, giving their opinion with no evidence advanced to disprove the lab reports proves absolutely zilch, nada, nil, zero and nuttin', Einstein.  That's where you are, floundering in opinion.  So then your default fall-back is I am "just indoctrinated".  I am relying on the evidence of a lab report plus a mountain of evidence already cited by me in these pages ad nauseam  which you dishonestly choose to ignore.  Nuff said.

I have to give credit where it is due, though, always.  Your list of the purpose of religion is a new line, the first time I've seen it from the atheist camp.  What it amounts to is not an enumeration of the purpose of religion, but rather an enumeration of the impact of religion.  They are not the same.

The purpose of Christ on earth is well explained in the Gospels and less lucidly but more expansively explained also in the Old Testament, so as you claim to have read them, then you should understand its purpose, but clearly you read these books with your eyes closed.

The benefit of Christianity is profitable to the moral, spiritual, communal, heath and wellbeing of man, if only he would participate and yearn for the knowledge.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix

Do you think that J. K. Rowling knows that Harry Potter isn't real?

It is completely irrational for you to think that because someone wrote a story that they should believe it to be true, if anything the person telling the story will know tha most about what if any parts of it are true.

Please try to use logic and reasoning.

I did not provide opinion to debunk it, I used science. You can say "Science doesn't mean anything" all you want, but at the end of the day the lights will still turn on and uranium will still be radioactive. No, I used hard science.

Here are all of my links to disprove your retelling of the story and a short description of what it says at the site. 0 of them are opinion! :

https://www.yourgenome.org/facts/what-is-meiosis
This is a colorful description of how meiosis works broken down into simple language that is easy to understand. 

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/basics/howmanychromosomes 
ghr.nlm.gov is an official website for scientific papers, abstracts, and meta analysis pertaining to genetic health and research. This paper is a very basic primer on how many Chromosomes are in the human genome, something you can verify for yourself with a powerful enough microscope.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/klinefelter-syndrome 
ghr.nlm.gov is an official website for scientific papers, abstracts, and meta analysis pertaining to genetic health and research. This paper describes Klinefelter syndrome.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3626278/
ghr.nlm.gov is an official website for scientific papers, abstracts, and meta analysis pertaining to genetic health and research. This paper details the "killer T cells" which are part of the human immune system.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/what-is-cancer/how-cancer-starts/cancer-cells
This website has some valuable information on cancer, such as what it is, how it happens, and some basic information on cancer treatments.

https://www.neoteryx.com/microsampling-blog/can-you-get-dna-from-dried-blood
This is a resource containing basic information on how DNA is extracted from dried blood.

You have yet to provide any evidence that such a lab report even exists! Show me links! show me pictures! Show me the entire sequence of the DNA! Literally anything.

That is why the real argument that absolutely kills this story, the philosophical argument, is the real killer even after all the science eviscerates it:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pragmatism/
This website explains the philosophy of pragmatism and the history of this American philosophy.

Said in simple terms, there is no truth except that which is useful. Everything is false until you can do something with it.

So in this case, if there is a sample then something useful can be done with it. If there is not, then nothing useful can be done with it. We have not seen anything useful done with it, therefore the story isn't real.

The story however, (and the equally false bible stories) does serve a pragmatic purpose even though the contents are fake- The story as I have already outlined is used to keep religious folks in their cages so that others can profit from them. What makes the story true, not in a literal but a metaphorical sense, is that someone can get something done with it, and you believing it has some deeper meaning is exactly that which was intended.

Consider this story: Billy says he has super powers, he can fly and shoot laser beams from his fingers. When asked to show his critiques his abilities, he says "No, I can only use them in an emergency because they are too powerful. Why don't you provide evidence that I can't fly and shoot lasers?" His classmates laugh at him, but Billy insists. His classmates show how birds, bats, bees, jets, airplanes and helicopters need wings and/or propellers in order to fly, and that Billy has none of those things. The show how lasers need a focusing lens, mirrors, and excitation medium to work, and how his fingers have none of those things. Billy says "I don't know how it happens, but it just does. You didn't disprove anything!" His classmates go about their day and Billy smugly thinks to himself that he is right.

Does Billy have superpowers? Probably not. However the point is clear: If Billy used his powers then it would be pragmatic to say he has them, because they are useful. If he says he does but never uses them, it is not useful and it is just noise. Right now you are Billy.

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - You wrote this in reply ...

It is completely irrational for you to think that because someone wrote a story that they should believe it to be true, if anything the person telling the story will know tha most about what if any parts of it are true.
Please try to use logic and reasoning.

Correct.  I agree with that and is why I don't believe you wrote the story for three reasons, (a) You provide no evidence to prove that you did write it and (b) All of the evidence we have of ancient artefacts, confirmed by experts to be authentic, (ancient manuscripts, The Dead Sea scrolls, the cunieform Sumerian tablets, just to name a few of the thousands), prove they are many millennia older than you could ever possibly be, therefore you did not exist when the story was first recorded, therefore you did not write it.  (c) It makes no sense to claim authorship of a story only to promptly debunk that same story.  Why would anyone invent a story only to debunk it?  

Then you wrote ...

I did not provide opinion to debunk it, I used science. You can say "Science doesn't mean anything" all you want, but at the end of the day the lights will still turn on and uranium will still be radioactive. No, I used hard science.

I have never said science doesn't mean anything and would never say that.  I do say science irrelevant to the facts doesn't mean anything.  I also say fake science doesn't mean anything.

Then you give links to the science you are relying on.  None of it disproves how DNA is copied exactingly into the genes of the next generation from the genomes of the parents.  We even have molecules to CORRECT any inaccurate copy to ensure that the DNA is faithfully copied.  Note the word "C O P Y".  That is not the same as "R E P L I C A T E".  DNA is simply "copied" like a brand is put on the rump of cattle, to say this is our identity.  Dissimilarly, cells replicate, they divide and reproduce duplicates of themselves.  There is a huge difference between the two, so your meisos link is all meaningless.  The process of meisos has absolutely nothing to do with the copying of DNA.  Here's a rundown of the content in your links:

First link - Deals with meisos and is irrelevant

Second link - Is an exact copy of the information I have already posted on this page to support my argument.  It does nothing to help yours.

Third link - Is a dissertation on the.Klinefelter syndrome, being ab-used by you to try to cast the aspersion that Christ must have suffered from it.  As its genetic chromosome count is not identical to Christs in any event, even if somewhat similar, it does not prove (a) that he had this genetic disorder or (b) that His chromosome count is not the result of his other 22 absent chromosomes being due to the fact that spiritual beings have no need of chromosomes, which equates with the definition that he obtained half of his chromosomes from his Mother Mary and His Y sex chromosome from His Father with no need for any others, due to his spiritual divinity.  This link doesn't prove anything.  It is merely you abusing it to suggest a wild proposition.  No scholars are suggesting it or ever have.  

Fourth link - This jumps to yet another preposterous presumption by you to try to suggest that Christ had some lurking problem with natural killer T cells and had disease and health issues.  Quote to me anywhere from reliable sources outside of the Bible which give any evidence that Christ suffered a day, an hour a second from ill health, a disease, a viral infection, a genetic disorder, any kind of health issue or disorder.  There is nothing to support these wild propositions of yours.  What is consistently evident though, is that atheists are obsessed with God, Christ and anything which gives either any credence, that they go to any length, even ridiculous ones like yours, to try to debunk the history or evidence in favor of either..

Fifth Link - Is irrelevant waffle on cancer cells.  Gee, the way you are going, Christ would have been the walking dead by now.

Sixth Link - Links to a Pathology Laboratory named Neoteryx.  You don't even take the time to bother to properly research what the site says, let alone link to the relevant subject of dried blood cells, but I did.  This is their page on the subject, as per image below ....


.

And this below is what the Neoteryx link from the above page on their site links to.  We are talking about dried blood samples that are almost 2,000 years old.  You also don't explain how the blood cells came back to life, which was necessary for the technology available back then, (late 1980s) to even get a chromosome count.  This technology was not available then.  

Nothing is said about what is possible with blood cells 2,000 years old - only that after 11 years they begin to deteriorate to be useful, so , you have proved absolutely zilch, nada, zero, nuttin' with this link or with any of your links to explain (a) how the dead cells came back to life and (b) how a chromosome count could be obtained from dried samples nearly 2,000 years old nor explained (c) the extraordinary results of that chromosome count.  Your links are silent on all of those points. 

.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix

In case you still haven't figured it out, the story is false and the science proves beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt that this is the case. The lack of pragmatic function for the subject of the story further drives this point home.

Correct.  I agree with that and is why I don't believe you wrote the story for three reasons, (a) You provide no evidence to prove that you did write it and (b) All of the evidence we have of ancient artefacts, confirmed by experts to be authentic, (ancient manuscripts, The Dead Sea scrolls, the cunieform Sumerian tablets, just to name a few of the thousands), prove they are many millennia older than you could ever possibly be, therefore you did not exist when the story was first recorded, therefore you did not write it.  (c) It makes no sense to claim authorship of a story only to promptly debunk that same story.  Why would anyone invent a story only to debunk it?  

Ok, so we agree the bible is a book full of lies then. Besides, extracting DNA from blood for criminal cases was first done in 1983 so I was in fact alive when this could have been first done. Therefore, It is possible I wrote the story. Ancient artifacts are irrelevant to the story, because they contain no blood. I actually did write this story.

I have never said science doesn't mean anything and would never say that.  I do say science irrelevant to the facts doesn't mean anything.  I also say fake science doesn't mean anything.

Well I didn't use fake science either.

Then you give links to the science you are relying on.  None of it disproves how DNA is copied exactingly into the genes of the next generation from the genomes of the parents.  We even have molecules to CORRECT any inaccurate copy to ensure that the DNA is faithfully copied.  Note the word "C O P Y".  That is not the same as "R E P L I C A T E".  DNA is simply "copied" like a brand is put on the rump of cattle, to say this is our identity.  Dissimilarly, cells replicate, they divide and reproduce duplicates of themselves.  There is a huge difference between the two, so your meisos link is all meaningless.  The process of meisos has absolutely nothing to do with the copying of DNA.

DNA copying and DNA replication are synonymous. You start with one strand of DNA and end up with two. Meiosis isn't about copying DNA, it is about cutting the amount of DNA in half. Mitosis is the process of cell replication. Meiosis is for sexual reproduction, and the fact that it happens the way it does proves that Jesus would have needed a human father, thus he could not have been of virgin birth.

First link - Deals with meisos and is irrelevant

Read immediately above. Your ignorance is still not an argument.

Is an exact copy of the information I have already posted on this page to support my argument.  It does nothing to help yours.

The point was you can't count to 24.

 Is a dissertation on the.Klinefelter syndrome, being ab-used by you to try to cast the aspersion that Christ must have suffered from it.  As its genetic chromosome count is not identical to Christs in any event, even if somewhat similar, it does not prove (a) that he had this genetic disorder or (b) that His chromosome count is not the result of his other 22 absent chromosomes being due to the fact that spiritual beings have no need of chromosomes, which equates with the definition that he obtained half of his chromosomes from his Mother Mary and His Y sex chromosome from His Father with no need for any others, due to his spiritual divinity.  This link doesn't prove anything.  It is merely you abusing it to suggest a wild proposition.  No scholars are suggesting it or ever have.  

This is a continuation of your failure to count, I brought it up to give you an out so you could save face in case you were to proud to admit you made a mistake. You were the one who suggested this.

 This jumps to yet another preposterous presumption by you to try to suggest that Christ had some lurking problem with natural killer T cells and had disease and health issues.  Quote to me anywhere from reliable sources outside of the Bible which give any evidence that Christ suffered a day, an hour a second from ill health, a disease, a viral infection, a genetic disorder, any kind of health issue or disorder.  There is nothing to support these wild propositions of yours.  What is consistently evident though, is that atheists are obsessed with God, Christ and anything which gives either any credence, that they go to any length, even ridiculous ones like yours, to try to debunk the history or evidence in favor of either..

Every human has natural killer-T cells. All I have to do is point out that Jesus was a human in accordance with the bible, and case is closed. There have been no reported cases where humans lack killer T cells, and Jesus was human, therefore, it is safe to assume that Jesus would have had natural killer-T cells. Everyone dies every day, and our immune system is guilty. 

This is supported by scripture.
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/jesus-is-fully-human

Is irrelevant waffle on cancer cells.  Gee, the way you are going, Christ would have been the walking dead by now.

This was again to give you an out. If Jesus didn't have killer T cells or those cells didn't function, then Jesus's blood would be carcinogenic. This is because the purpose of killer T cells is to kill cancer. However, blood is replicated in the bone marrow, so any blood will eventually die because it can't be replaced.

Links to a Pathology Laboratory named Neoteryx.  You don't even take the time to bother to properly research what the site says, let alone link to the relevant subject of dried blood cells, but I did.  This is their page on the subject, as per image below ..

Oh, but I did!

And this below is what the Neoteryx link from the above page on their site links to.  We are talking about dried blood samples that are almost 2,000 years old.  You also don't explain how the blood cells came back to life, which was necessary for the technology available back then, (late 1980s) to even get a chromosome count.  This technology was not available then.  

Do you want to know how the cells came back to life? They didn't, you are just a gullible fool for thinking the story is true. The story is made up, and by me no less.

Further nothing is said about what is possible with blood cells over 2,000 years old - only that after 11 years they begin to deteriorate to be useful, so , you have proved absolutely zilch, nada, zero, nuttin' with this link or with any of your links to explain (a) how the dead cells came back to life and (b) how a chromosome count could be obtained from dried samples nearly 2,000 years old nor explained (c) the extraordinary results of that chromosome count.  Your links are silent on all of those points. 

The fact that blood deteriorates to the point of being unusable is strong evidence that the story is fake. I never said the story is true, the story is made up, you are gullible, stop being so foolish.

I can't help but notice you leave out the juiciest bit, the philosophical argument. The American philosophy of pragmatism stands as the final blow to your childish beliefs, and since you don't contend with these points, they stand as truth. The story is false because it is useless. Isn't that right Billy?

Grafix

@Happy_Killbot - Your problem , is that no matter how hard I search to find any E V I D E N C E  that the story was made up by you and is therefore false because you know that it is, because you are the one who made it up, so you should know, I can nevertheless only find evidence of the very opposite to these claims, (a) zero science to prove you made it up (b) zero science proving that it was made up by whomsoever and (c) zero science disproving the story at all.  I find instead, only evidence that it is true and that you were most certainly not its origin, given the time frames and dating of artefacts, historical records outside of the Bible, etc.  You really do need to provide evidence of these wild claims of yours, if you wish to salvage your credibility.  Until you can do so, the rest of your post is just pure irrelevant idiocy.

You even now are defying science to justify these wild claims, for example you state ....

DNA copying and DNA replication are synonymous

There is no such thing as DNA "replication".  It is an impossibility.  It would be like trying to remove a brand name stamped on a product in ink and using that ink to reproduce itself.  DNA cannot reproduce itself via meiosos.  It is merely C O P I E D.  There is a huge difference between C O P Y I N G and cell division and multiplication.  DNA cannot multiply and cannot be divided.  EVERY cell of an individual has EXACTLY the same DNA.  As I said if there is the smallest error in transporting the DNA, we have molecules which correct those errors.  It is you, my dear friend who is bastardising science to fit your narrative, because you deal in Satan's duplicity, the Prince of Deception.  

Then you argue this ...

The fact that blood deteriorates to the point of being unusable is strong evidence that the story is fake. I never said the story is true, the story is made up, you are gullible, stop being so foolish.

You tried to make out what happened in the lab was not beyond science and therefore was not a miracle.  Now you've denied that and even agreed with me that it isn't possible by normal known scientific methodology.  That then leaves unchallenged by you, the claim that it was God's hand performing a miracle to bring the blood back to life in order that a chromosome count could be obtained.  You're back to square one , with NUTTIN'.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix What evidence do you have that the story is true though?

Behold DNA copying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bee6PWUgPo8

Meiosis still isn't DNA replication, I correct that conceptual error already.

The pragmatic argument still stands, untouched by you.

Grafix

I asked you to do a Google search of "Christ's blood tested in science laboratory" so that you could research the news reports for yourself and decide and argue your case on what you found. How come you don't know about it?  I thought you said you invented this story?  Wouldn't that mean you had to have invented the Lab Reports too, so why are you asking me?  LOL!

If I give you any link, and these are multiple, to any of the news reports, you are only going to attack the messenger and discredit the source, so it is  always  best with Liberals to ask them to do the research for themselves, in the same way that anybody should and weigh up the nays and ayes, comparing the accredited sources from the horse's mouth, as opposed to mere opinion debunking it, which is all you have done, including cite very irrelevant science.  So do the search and tell me there is no Lab Report.

I don't see any post anywhere by you correcting your inaccurate statement that DNA can replicate and that meiosis is somehow relevant to DNA copying.  These claims made by you are just plain wrong and not scientifically supported anywhere.  In spite of my showing all of these errors, then you claim that "the pragmatic argument", whatever that is given you have provided nothing but falsehoods, is still untouched.  Right.  Got it.  LOL.

P.S. Edit:  On second thoughts, it is better to risk your debunking the original source than it is to risk your claims that I can't provide a source because the Lab Report does not exist.  So in the interests of discretion, the following link provides the information on how it was originally and properly authenticated:  http://www.arkdiscovery.com/gruver.htm  .   However, to understand why none of these Reports can be released into the public domain, you must watch the videos and read up on the history of the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, because there are justified fears that it and this evidence will be wilfully destroyed by God's enemies.  You could start with this video:-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AbVOdRigOA .  The rest of the research is really up to you and no-one else. I am not your keeper.
.

Dee

@Grafix

Hilarious stuff you actually make flat Earthers look sane a hard thing to do , your “supporting evidence “ is a video by the notorious debunked and thankfully deceased fruit cake Ron Wyatt a nut even other Christians ridicule .....

Here is a piece from Science Blogs that puts you in your place yet again, not that will stop you with your inane rantings .....

And out come the wingnuts. Here's the email I just received from someone named James Albright:

Dear Ed,

Noah's ark was discovered by Ron Wyatt, whose ministry is named Wyatt Archeological Research. The news media is only taking attention away from the real ark through your ministry. Please stop this approach in the name of Jesus. Thank you.. James D Albright

Oi vey. Are there people out there who still take Ron Wyatt seriously? Con men simply don't get much more transparent than this guy. Wyatt was a nurse anesthetist (now deceased) who claimed not only to have found Noah's Ark, but to have found virtually everything in Biblical archaeology that might be important to Christians - Noah's Ark, the exact place where the Red Sea was parted to allow the Israelites to escape Egypt, the true location of Mt. Sinai, the Ark of the Covenant and, most ridiculously, the actual blood of Jesus Christ! 

This last one is the most amusing of them all. He claims to have found the Ark of the Covenant in Jerusalem in a secret cave under the actual spot where Christ was crucified, and it had Jesus' blood all over it (the blood had dripped down from the cross). 

Whilst in the chamber, Ron noticed a dried, black substance in an earthquake crack in the roof, above the Ark of the Covenant. He noticed that this black substance was also on the lid of the cracked stone casing. Obviously, this substance had dripped from the crack in the roof, and provision had been made for it to land on the Ark of the Covenant, as the stone lid had been cracked and moved aside. Ron wondered what substance could be so sacred, that God made provision for it to land on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant. He remembered the earthquake crack at the foot of the cross hole, and suddenly an awesome realization as to what had happened, came over him. Ron traced the earthquake crack, and indeed it was the same crack as the one at the cross hole. The dried black substance in the crack was tested and proved to be blood, apparently the blood of Jesus Christ. The Bible says that when Jesus died there was an earthquake and the rocks were rent (Matt. 27:51). A Roman soldier speared Christ in His side in order to make sure He was dead, and blood and water poured out (John 19:34). Ron discovered that this same blood and water poured down through the earthquake crack and fell upon the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant.

Since the blood was dried, he had it rehydrated and then, allegedly, had it tested (where are those tests? No one seems to know - surprise, surprise). And here's the result:

Human cells normally have 46 chromosomes. These are actually 23 pairs of homologous chromosomes. In each pair of chromosomes, one of the pair is from the mother and the other member is from the father. Therefore, 23 chromosomes come from the mother and 23 from the father. In each set of 23, 22 chromosomes are autosomal and one is sex-determining. The sex-determining ones are the X chromosome and the Y chromosome. Females are XX, so they can only contribute an X chromosome to their offspring, whereas males are XY, which allows them to contribute either an X or a Y. If they contribute an X, the child is female, whereas if they contribute a Y, the child is male. The fascinating finding in this blood was that instead of 46 chromosomes, there were only 24. There were 22 autosomal chromosomes, one X chromosome and one Y chromosome. This evidences that the person to whom this blood belonged to had a mother but no human father, because the normal contribution of paternal chromosomes is missing.

You really can't write comedy like this. Needless to say, he brags of all these fantastic scientific tests that never see the light of day - but trust him, he's got em! His assistant, Jim Pinkoski, is quite an amusing fellow. He'll show you a piece of genuine petrified wood from Noah's Ark. And when you point out that this "petrified wood" has no rings in it, he'll tell you - with a straight face - that that's because trees didn't have rings before the flood. It's all quite amusing and ridiculous.

Wyatt is so bad that other creationist and Christian groups have put up webpages debunking his work. Here are three major ones: Tentmaker, Christian Information Ministries and Answers in Genesis.

Happy_Killbot

@Grafix Since @Dee did all the work for me I guess I don't have to talk about this story anymore.

Lets just focus on the pragmatic side of things since you hate science because of how it disproves all your religious claims and you would probably rather live in denial of reality than just accept the truth and get over your grief.

Here is a short excerpt on pragmatism:

Pragmatism is a philosophical tradition that – very broadly – understands knowing the world as inseparable from agency within it. This general idea has attracted a remarkably rich and at times contrary range of interpretations, including: that all philosophical concepts should be tested via scientific experimentation, that a claim is true if and only if it is useful (relatedly: if a philosophical theory does not contribute directly to social progress then it is not worth much), that experience consists in transacting with rather than representing nature, that articulate language rests on a deep bed of shared human practices that can never be fully ‘made explicit’.
Pragmatism originated in the United States around 1870, and now presents a growing third alternative to both analytic and ‘Continental’ philosophical traditions worldwide. Its first generation was initiated by the so-called ‘classical pragmatists’ Charles Sanders Peirce (1839–1914), who first defined and defended the view, and his close friend and colleague William James (1842–1910), who further developed and ably popularized it. During this initial period, pragmatists focused significantly on theorising inquiry, meaning and the nature of truth, although James put these themes to work exploring truth in religion. A second (still termed ‘classical’) generation turned pragmatist philosophy more explicitly towards politics, education and other dimensions of social improvement, under the immense influence of John Dewey (1859–1952) and his friend Jane Addams (1860–1935) – who invented the profession of social work as an expression of pragmatist ideas (and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1931). Also of considerable importance at this time was George Herbert Mead (1863–1931), who contributed significantly to the social sciences, developing pragmatist perspectives upon the relations between the self and the community (Mead 1934). As the resulting progressive Deweyan ‘New Deal’ era passed away and the US moved into the Cold War, pragmatism’s influence was challenged, as analytic philosophy blossomed and became the dominant methodological orientation in most Anglo-American philosophy departments. Transitional or ‘third generation’ figures included C.I. Lewis and W.V.O. Quine; although these philosophers developed a number of pragmatist themes, their analytic allegiance may be seen in their significant focus on theory of knowledge as first philosophy (which Dewey deprecated as ‘the epistemological industry’).

The argument I make goes like this:

Said in simple terms, there is no truth except that which is useful. Everything is false until you can do something with it or cause some beneficial change with it.

So in this case, if there is a sample then something useful can be done with it. If there is not, then nothing useful can be done with it. We have not seen anything useful done with it, therefore the story isn't real.

The story however, (and the equally false bible stories) does serve a pragmatic purpose even though the contents are fake- The story as I have already outlined is used to keep religious folks in their cages so that others can profit from them. What makes the story true, not in a literal but a metaphorical sense, is that someone can get something done with it, and you believing it has some deeper meaning is exactly that which was intended.

Consider this story: Billy says he has super powers, he can fly and shoot laser beams from his fingers. When asked to show his critiques his abilities, he says "No, I can only use them in an emergency because they are too powerful. Why don't you provide evidence that I can't fly and shoot lasers?" His classmates laugh at him, but Billy insists. His classmates show how birds, bats, bees, jets, airplanes and helicopters need wings and/or propellers in order to fly, and that Billy has none of those things. The show how lasers need a focusing lens, mirrors, and excitation medium to work, and how his fingers have none of those things. Billy says "I don't know how it happens, but it just does. You didn't disprove anything!" His classmates go about their day and Billy smugly thinks to himself that he is right.

Does Billy have superpowers? Probably not. However the point is clear: If Billy used his powers then it would be pragmatic to say he has them, because they are useful. If he says he does but never uses them, it is not useful and it is just noise. Right now you are Billy.

Dee

@Happy_Killbot

I think it admirable that you continue to attempt to educate @Grafix but I fear his continuing lunacy makes it a task that’s verging on the impossible 

Happy_Killbot

@Dee I'm aware, when he won't even respond to the most basic epistemology, it's hard to come to any conclusion except that he is a child or has sustained brain injury.

Dee

@Happy_Killbot ;

I think you’re spot on and yes I often put his age at around 14 -17 and with the brain damage included as a given