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TKDB
Member, joined August 2018



694 Points    17 Badges     76 Debates     3644 Arguments    

0 Followers0 Following0 Friends (Mutual Followers)


O.D.S.L.
Overall Debating Skill Level

O.D.S.L.: 1310 points | Formal And Formalish Debate Wins: 0/1 | Formal And Formalish Debate Losses: 1/1

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TKDB
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  • Who won the Government shutdown?

    Trump on border negotiations: 'Without a wall, it doesn't work'
    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-border-security-without-wall-200054061.html

    An excerpt from the article:

    "President Trump says he would reject a border security bill that doesn’t include funding for a border wall: “Without a wall, it doesn’t work.”
    Zombieguy1987whiteflame
  • Who won the Government shutdown?

    Trump, Democrats battle in early stage of U.S. border security talks
    https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-no-wall-money-u-border-deal-talks-162509707--business.html

    Some excerpts from the article:

    By Amanda Becker and Richard Cowan

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - 

    "U.S. President Donald Trump and congressional Democrats on Thursday hardened their positions over a wall being built on the border with Mexico, raising new doubts over their ability to reach a deal just as negotiations were getting underway.

    House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters: "There's not going to be any wall money in the legislation" to fund border security for the rest of this year.

    Instead, Pelosi said funding for more ports of entry or additional border security technology was open for negotiation. She added that the 17 House and Senate negotiators should decide the components of the nation's border security.

    But the Democratic negotiators went a step further from Pelosi's prohibition on wall funds, unveiling a detailed opening position containing no money for any type of additional physical barriers on the border to control the flow of undocumented immigrants and illegal drugs.

    Previously, Democrats have supported $1.3 billion for new border fencing this year or improvements to existing fencing.

    Asked by reporters about Pelosi's comment on wall funding, Trump, a Republican, said: "Without a wall, it doesn’t work."

    Congress has a Feb. 15 deadline for coming up with a new plan for further securing the southwestern border.

    The bipartisan conference committee of House and Senate lawmakers held a public session on Wednesday with the goal of producing a deal in about a week so it could be voted on by both chambers by the deadline.


    TORRENT OF TWEETS

    Democratic leaders have called on Trump to stand aside and let the negotiators do their work as a way of fostering success.

    Ignoring that advice, Trump issued a series of tweets on Thursday predicting failure and sounding alarms.

    "More troops being sent to the Southern Border to stop the attempted Invasion of Illegals, through large Caravans," Trump tweeted. In another tweet, he declared Democrats were becoming the party of "open borders and crime."

    At the same time, each side has left some potential openings for the congressional negotiators to exploit.

    Evan Hollander, a House Appropriations Committee spokesman, said the Democratic plan detailed on Thursday was the party's "position entering conference negotiations" and "every proposal raised by conferees will be thoughtfully considered."

    Pelosi got into a few specifics at her news conference.

    "Is there a place for enhanced fencing? Normandy fencing would work. Let them have that discussion," she said, referring to low-slung vehicle barriers.

    For his part, Trump, speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, said, "you can have other things" securing the border, "but the other things only really work if you have a physical barrier."

    On Capitol Hill, Republican negotiator Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama did not seem overly concerned about Pelosi's statements, calling them "ambiguous." But he said if Pelosi, Trump and party leaders "would let us, the appropriators, do our job, we could do this."

    Calling himself hopeful, Shelby said, "I think if we're going to get a deal, we'll get it probably in the next 10 days."

    A Democratic negotiator, Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, brushed aside Trump's tweets, saying people are paying less attention to them.

    "A lot of the Republicans told me they wished he (Trump) would not do that," Leahy said.

    Trump has demanded $5.7 billion for this fiscal year to start construction on a border wall that he envisioned during his 2016 campaign as being 2,000 miles (3,200 km) long and made of concrete.

    Since then, he has said it would not run the full length of the border, could be made of other materials such as steel slats - and that the wall could be called "peaches" if that was a way to get around the semantics of a "wall."

    And he has maintained that large sections had already been built.

    But on Thursday, Trump reversed himself.

    "Lets just call them WALLS from now on and stop playing political games!" he tweeted. "A WALL is a WALL!"

    Without a deal by Feb. 15, a partial government shutdown could resume. The president also has said he would consider declaring a national emergency in order to divert existing funds to build a wall, which would almost certainly trigger a constitutional legal challenge.

    Included in the Democrats' plan was $98 million above last year for U.S. Customs and Border Protection to hire 1,000 more customs agents, and $400 million for buying and deploying security technology.

    Democrats also called for new constraints on the ability of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents to place in deportation proceedings the sponsors of undocumented immigrant minors who are in the United States without their parents."

    Nancy Pelosi, one of the co winners of the previous Government shutdown, continues to make the news, by how she apparently manages things with her individual political powers?

    Zombieguy1987whiteflame
  • Who won the Government shutdown?

    @WordsMatter

    @Zombieguy1987

    @whiteflame

    The below are in charge.

    An add on though, don't build an add on barrier, to go with the other 600 miles of a border wall/ barriers that are already in place. 

    No, make it easy for the following parties below? 

    Again, the illegal immigrants won the Government shutdown, because their status quo status in the United States, remains unchanged.

    Again, the 300 sanctuary cities won the Government shut, their status quo status in the United States remains unchanged.

    Again, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer won rhe government shutdown. (Their status quo status's remain unchanged.

    The illegal immigration, the sanctuary cities, and the businesses that utilize the illegal immigrants to do work for them, they all won, and they'll continue to be, as long as those who support them, are enabling their status quo status's to continue,  unless they are challenged?

    I guess, let the rest of the country suffer, while those other status quo entities. have their ways with the country, basically since, the late 1980's? 

    sta·tus quo
    /ˌstādəs ˈkwō/
    noun
    1. the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues.
      "they have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo"




    Zombieguy1987
  • Who won the Government shutdown?

    @whiteflame

    I wonder, who is in charge of the country?

    The sanctuary cities?

    The businesses that utilize the illegal immigrants to do work for them?

    Or maybe some of the illegal immigrants themselves, are in charge of the country?

    Or, in reality, the POTUS is?

    And the above questions remain, in the face of your words:

    "So, if you want to keep pushing the same lines over and over while ignoring any semblance of a response you get or even the very topic you yourself posted, you can do it without me. I don’t feel a need to respond to any of the above points because they are all things I’ve previously addressed, and you refuse to even acknowledge my responses. If that’s your goal, then you’re succeeding with flying colors, but it makes for a pretty awful debate. I want no more part of it."

    Just as some of the ranchers, and some of their families, (I'm guessing, would maybe prefer that the immigrants, come into the country legally,) instead of some of them coming into the United States illegally? 

     
    Zombieguy1987whiteflame
  • Who won the Government shutdown?

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/schumer-tells-trump-to-butt-out-of-border-talks

    "Schumer tells Trump to butt out of border talks"

    But Democrats are still resisting Trump's push to spend $5.7 billion on new border wall, and are likely to agree to language that stops short of Trump's demand. Some are floating the idea of spending $1.6 billion on pedestrian fencing along the Rio Grande, for example.

    Trump has no direct say in the talks, but has pushed Republicans for weeks to get him his border wall. If negotiators fail to agree to any new wall, or not enough, Trump has threatened to declare a national emergency to start building parts of the wall on the southern U.S. border.

    Trump has also threatened not to sign any final agreement that Congress negotiates, which could start another shutdown. Schumer warned Trump against another funding lapse.

    "I hope this serves as a lesson to President Trump and all of my Republican colleagues: no more shutdown," he said. "President Trump touched a hot, hot stove, and hopefully he won't do it again."

    Illegal immigration, is and has been a hot stove issue, long before POTUS Trump showed up, maybe some would prefer that illegal immigration be left alone entirely, and not do a thing to address the Border wall/ barrier, and leave it alone, to allow the hundreds of illegal immigrants to come into the United States illegally without any actions being taken?

    But "Border Security" will be addressed, but the Border Wall dialogue, that should be left alone. right?

    I wonder, who is in charge of the country?

    The sanctuary cities?

    The businesses that utilize the illegal immigrants to do work for them?

    Or maybe some of the illegal immigrants themselves, are in charge of the country?

    Or, in reality, the POTUS is?


    Zombieguy1987

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